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The question I always ask when people suggest warfare, especially an invasion: will you personally fight in it?

by oefrha 6y ago

klibertp 6y ago
> will you personally fight in it? Personally, like in piloting a drone? It's a good question to ask, to be sure, but its value continues to diminish as more and more tech is deployed in warfare.
mofosyne 6y ago
Maybe a better question would be are you willing to allow crimes against humanity to occur if you can avoid personally fighting against it? Plus there is a whole spectrum of physical intervention if we choose to. E.g. drones, supporting insurgencies, etc... that doesn't even require boots on ground. This principle would be under R2P responsibility to protect.
- oefrha 6y ago
  We must have pretty different views of history if you think the actual goals of this kind of "intervention" ever included fighting "crimes against humanity", and they were not or did not lead to crimes against humanity themselves. Also, killing <s>human beings</s> enemy combatants dispassionately with drones... Not something I'm energetic enough to debate today.
baybal2 6y ago
The predominant part of HN demographic are young military age men. In case of any real conflict US will get dragged in, you will all be drafted, want you or not. Becoming a soldier after being a freewheeling young man with 6 digit income, and effectively loosing everything you put into your career, business, education, relationship with your woman is not a pleasant thing. But think, sooner or later US will be dragged into a real conflict. Everything is going towards that, and 2020, and multiple weak presidencies have only accelerated the timeline for Beijing, and Moscow. China's strategy is to keep US in Iraq, and Afghanistan indefinitely, and have US dragged into fighting equally pointless, exhausting conflicts, whether they will be military, trade, or diplomatic. They want to move that big direct conflict as much into future as possible, but that day will eventually, and inevitably come. The question will be on whose terms will it happen. What do you want? Loose everything and win, or loose everything and loose?
- chevill 6y ago
  >In case of any real conflict US will get dragged in, you will all be drafted, want you or not. A conflict doesn't have to be a global war to qualify as "real conflict" by any sensible definition. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were a real conflict, yet there were no drafts.
- brobdingnagians 6y ago
  The dirty secret is that the US will probably lose either way. Instead of absolute dollar amounts, if you compare China's military purchasing power with the US, adjusting for different labor costs and the fact that they don't include things like R&D in their military budget, then China is much closer to US spending than it appears. Having a supply line to Asia versus China fighting close to home, that is a recipe for disaster.
  - User23 6y ago
    Not to mention the US's idiotic policy of allowing Chinese nationals to work in classified defense industries. Not only is China benefitting from their own massive defense spending, they are benefiting from a significant chunk of the USA's[1]. Presumably there are many more instances where this occurs that have not been caught. [1] https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/survey-chinese-linked-espionage-united-states-2000 https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/surv...
  - jcranmer 6y ago
    > Having a supply line to Asia versus China fighting close to home, that is a recipe for disaster. It's worth remembering that World War II was a conflict where one side was fighting on a supply line 4,000 miles long, 3,000 by sea, and the other side was fighting a hundred miles past its own borders. The supply problems in the conflict were mostly concentrated in the latter country. I can't speak to the quality of the Chinese military, but the US military is regarded as having perhaps the single most effective military logistics in world history.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago

The question I always ask when people suggest warfare, especially an invasion: will you personally fight in it?

by oefrha 6y ago

The question I always ask when people suggest warfare, especially an invasion: will you personally fight in it?

> will you personally fight in it? Personally, like in piloting a drone? It's a good question to ask, to be sure, but its value continues to diminish as more and more tech is deployed in warfare.

mofosyne 6y ago

Maybe a better question would be are you willing to allow crimes against humanity to occur if you can avoid personally fighting against it? Plus there is a whole spectrum of physical intervention if we choose to. E.g. drones, supporting insurgencies, etc... that doesn't even require boots on ground. This principle would be under R2P responsibility to protect.

oefrha 6y ago
We must have pretty different views of history if you think the actual goals of this kind of "intervention" ever included fighting "crimes against humanity", and they were not or did not lead to crimes against humanity themselves. Also, killing <s>human beings</s> enemy combatants dispassionately with drones... Not something I'm energetic enough to debate today.

baybal2 6y ago

The predominant part of HN demographic are young military age men. In case of any real conflict US will get dragged in, you will all be drafted, want you or not. Becoming a soldier after being a freewheeling young man with 6 digit income, and effectively loosing everything you put into your career, business, education, relationship with your woman is not a pleasant thing. But think, sooner or later US will be dragged into a real conflict. Everything is going towards that, and 2020, and multiple weak presidencies have only accelerated the timeline for Beijing, and Moscow. China's strategy is to keep US in Iraq, and Afghanistan indefinitely, and have US dragged into fighting equally pointless, exhausting conflicts, whether they will be military, trade, or diplomatic. They want to move that big direct conflict as much into future as possible, but that day will eventually, and inevitably come. The question will be on whose terms will it happen. What do you want? Loose everything and win, or loose everything and loose?

chevill 6y ago
>In case of any real conflict US will get dragged in, you will all be drafted, want you or not. A conflict doesn't have to be a global war to qualify as "real conflict" by any sensible definition. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were a real conflict, yet there were no drafts.
brobdingnagians 6y ago
The dirty secret is that the US will probably lose either way. Instead of absolute dollar amounts, if you compare China's military purchasing power with the US, adjusting for different labor costs and the fact that they don't include things like R&D in their military budget, then China is much closer to US spending than it appears. Having a supply line to Asia versus China fighting close to home, that is a recipe for disaster.
- User23 6y ago
  Not to mention the US's idiotic policy of allowing Chinese nationals to work in classified defense industries. Not only is China benefitting from their own massive defense spending, they are benefiting from a significant chunk of the USA's[1]. Presumably there are many more instances where this occurs that have not been caught. [1] https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/survey-chinese-linked-espionage-united-states-2000 https://www.csis.org/programs/technology-policy-program/surv...
- jcranmer 6y ago
  > Having a supply line to Asia versus China fighting close to home, that is a recipe for disaster. It's worth remembering that World War II was a conflict where one side was fighting on a supply line 4,000 miles long, 3,000 by sea, and the other side was fighting a hundred miles past its own borders. The supply problems in the conflict were mostly concentrated in the latter country. I can't speak to the quality of the Chinese military, but the US military is regarded as having perhaps the single most effective military logistics in world history.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago