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The US has a uniquely exploitative work visa program and undocumented immigrants are hired at slave wages. I wouldn't call this an accomplishment.
by DoctorNick 6y ago
The US has a uniquely exploitative work visa program and undocumented immigrants are hired at slave wages. I wouldn't call this an accomplishment.
- iguy 6y ago2nd line of TFA: "among Nobel Prize winners and Fields Medalists, [im]migrants [...]" These people might be under-paid, relative to silicon valley, but "slave wages" is pushing it. And while they are not a group known for being really on top of their paperwork, few of them cross borders illegally. Unless you mean the ones who escaped the USSR without permission.
- Tinyyy 6y agoI make $400k/yr as an immigrant, and boy do I feel exploited :) Edit: Sorry for being sarcastic and flexing here. I’m friends with many IMO and IOI medalists (per the paper) who are studying/working in the US and I think it’s an amazing opportunity for them. Where I grew up in Singapore, tech salaries are way lower, and as a new grad I think I easily 3xed what I could’ve made back there. I’m not representative of all immigrants but I believe I can represent a class of highly skilled immigrants who appreciate the opportunity. It’s extremely insulting to call people like me exploited, because the next line is - I’m bringing down your wages.
- arkitaip 6y agoImagine thinking you are representative of US immigrants.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- TeeMassive 6y agoImagine thinking you speaking as a representative yourself...
- nostrademons 6y agoThe paper is specifically talking about highly skilled immigrants in math & science, though. Their dataset was a few thousand IMO gold medalists. Grandparent poster's experience is a lot more representative of this sample than a random agricultural worker who crosses the Rio Grande.
- notsureaboutpg 6y agoThe title is misleading though. The vast vast vast majority of migrants to the US are random agricultural workers and the vast vast vast minority of them are IMO gold medalists from Singapore.
- cccc4all 6y agoCould you make that or higher amount in your former country? If not, why not?
- jokethrowaway 6y agoThe US did good economically in the past couple of centuries. There's significantly more money in the USA than in a lot of other countries. Even accounting for the ridiculously high taxes and the work-80hrs culture, the high salaries can be worth it for some people.
- anxrn 6y agoIrrespective of which of the myriad ways you use to compare tax raters, the assertion that the US has "ridiculously high taxes" does not hold up. https://www.crfb.org/blogs/us-highest-taxed-nation-world https://www.crfb.org/blogs/us-highest-taxed-nation-world
- terse_malvolio 6y agoDoing what?
- papandada 6y agoPost history seems to say he won a trading competition. To whoever downvoted this did you think I needed to add "so presumably he works in something along those lines"?
- dkdbejwi383 6y agoHow much of that do you spend on health insurance?
- cdash 6y agoProbably almost nothing. People who make salaries like that also have incredibly good insurance that is also mostly paid by their company.
- esoterica 6y agoProbably $0? People usually get health insurance on top of their reported compensation.
- bobthepanda 6y agoThe health insurance isn’t usually free. And a lot of employer plans have either lots of restrictions or high deductible or some other gotchas.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- danans 6y agoWhen group health insurance is provided in the US, employers and employees usually split the cost of insurance premiums. Both employers and employees can treat their premium portion as a tax deductible expense. Additional copays and out of pocket expenses are completely on the employee.
- np- 6y agoEven some of the worst possible HDHP plans that employees can get have a max out of pocket of $10k/yr (pre-tax) with HSA. So you can say in the worst case OP makes $400k and pays $10k in insurance if he has some major health issues to be addressed. Or maybe just say he makes $390k and has totally free insurance? Even if he’s spending something ridiculous like $50k/yr on a family of eight’s insurance he’s still way better off.
- goldforever 6y agoGood for you!
- beyondcompute 6y agoImmigrants everywhere are brought in to work for smaller wages than locals. What’s so new or unusual about this? The situation is unfortunate, of course. But the U.S. is not much different here. However, doing the same thing as everyone with less damage to economy (and therefore local working people, taxpayers, etc.) because of productivity is not necessarily such a bad thing. IMO, it should be much easier for productive people to enter any country than it is now. And it should be harder for non-productive ones (it’s too easy now in many places). Context: I am an expat myself.
- eeZah7Ux 6y ago> But the U.S. is not much different here The US is profoundly different. Very few developed countries have at-will employment. It puts immigrants at risk of being fired and losing health insurance in any moment and with 0 warning. This creates a very exploitative environment. Not to mention how difficult it is to immigrate, or to get a green card or citizenship compared to many other countries.
- pelasaco 6y ago> Not to mention how difficult it is to immigrate, or to get a green card or citizenship compared to many other countries Compared with which countries?
- f6v 6y agoGermany. 21 months working on a Blue Card gets you the right to apply for an unlimited permanent residence. And the Blue Card is rather trivial to get. All you need is a degree and a contract with a company. No visa sponsorship required, i.e. it costs a German company 0 to hire someone outside the EU. I think Canada’s express entry is a good example as well.
- pelasaco 6y ago> All you need is a degree and a contract with a company. That's just possible for some markets. If you are talking about your own experience, that's because you are probably software developer. Canada and Australia are definitely not easier, but more transparent.
- matz1 6y agoEven at the 'slave' wage, they still get paid significantly higher compared to wage in their home country. A lot of them would happily be 'exploited' for the opportunity.
- bumby 6y ago>compared to wage in their home country I believe part of the argument is that this is precisely why it’s exploitative. Employers are taking advantage of something the employee has zero control over. I.e., they are essentially being punished for where they were born. I’m torn on this topic. On one hand, it does seem exploitative. On the other, I don’t know that stopping the exploitation makes the employee better off to if it essentially limits their job prospects. I assume there’s middle ground but I don’t know what it is
- rubyist5eva 6y agoI'd love to move to the US from Canada in order to "exploit" the fact that my salary could almost double overnight simply by changing currency - and the less expensive real estate in pretty much everywhere that isn't in California, New York or some other giant city. Exploit me harder daddy.
- jokethrowaway 6y agoBe careful to factor in property taxes you have to pay every year.
- refurb 6y agoThey have property taxes in Canada too.
- rubyist5eva 6y agoI own a home here, so I'm all too familiar with property taxes.
- eznzt 6y agoIf I have to choose between that or the immigrants exploiting the welfare state like it happens in most of the EU, imagine what I choose.
- bpodgursky 6y agoUndocumented wages are yes, low, but calling them "slave wages" indicates you really do not understand the depths of inhumanity and cruelty associated with actual slavery. There are no "slave wages" because slaves did not get wages. I know it's a bit of rhetoric now, but it's IMO important to remember the distinction between being underpaid, and being literal property.