10 ms·

Importance of Side Projects

132 points by rawsyntax 15y ago

pnathan 15y ago
I see side projects as a key indicator of someone who is focused on becoming better, instead of just paying the bills.
rawsyntax 15y ago
I'm the author, will answer any questions / criticisms of the post. Thanks for the upvotes
- wallflower 15y ago
  I really liked your succinct definition of what a side project is. What are your thoughts/experiences/opinions on team side projects?
  - rawsyntax 15y ago
    I find it can be hard to sync up schedules and reliably work on it each week.
    - wallflower 15y ago
      Interesting, the most successful team side project I've ever worked on - we met regularly every week at a coffee shop. Looking back, that served two purposes - one, nothing beats face to face debugging and arguing over the merits of various UX approaches and two, having that weekly meeting was a hard deadline - that pushed each of us to get their stuff done and committed to the repository before the meeting (even if it was 5 min. prior to the meeting).
Swizec 15y ago
Balance, though, is key. I've never quite managed to figure out how to make sure an exciting side project doesn't consume my life leaving everything else to rot, or conversely, how to keep a side project sufficiently alive when swamped with more important things.
- rawsyntax 15y ago
  I always make sure the work that's paying the bills is done, before I work on the side project. Other than that, I'll typically commit to 5 hours a week. Usually in 2 sessions.
  - akaak 15y ago
    having a dedicated time to work on the side project tasks is a good idea. Balance does matter and it is sometimes difficult to stop what you want to do on the side project. OP's point about not getting into analysis/paralysis is the reason that I work on the side projects just to get see if the damn thing works or not.
exratione 15y ago
Seems to be a common theme around here: http://www.exratione.com/2011/03/the-side-project-considered-as-a-necessity.php http://www.exratione.com/2011/03/the-side-project-considered... "It seems strange to me that there exist developers who do not have side-projects: exploratory exercises in coding, tinkering, and scratching personal itches that run on the weekends, or here and there in the evenings as a replacement for mindlessly consuming mass-market entertainment. Do these people not enjoy their chosen profession?"
- rawsyntax 15y ago
  I once met a few developers through a friend of mine. My impression was that they had no passion for the job. Programming pays well if you're good at it. I think there are a lot of programmers who are just paying their bills.
- pagekalisedown 15y ago
  Wait 'til you have kids.
  - jackbean 15y ago
    I don't have kids and it is highly hypocritical of me to say so but "Leo Tolstoy wrote War and Peace while living with his wife and 13 children."
    - bmunro 15y ago
      Was War and Peace a side project or the main project? If it wasn't done as a side project then it isn't really relevant.
      - the_decider 15y ago
        War and Peace was the side project. Tolstoy's main project consisted of managing the land and peasents on his country estate.
    - gruseom 15y ago
dkersten 15y ago
My latest side project just attracted attention in a big way and it looks likely that we (myself and my brother; we worked on it together) will be founding a startup around it soon. We started the project for fun and all we expected out of it was some cool toys to play with, a little "oh thats cool" publicity and a fun learning experience. Its been a crazy past few weeks. So, yes, side projects are very important!
jswinghammer 15y ago
I've found that most of my coworkers over the years don't really react very well to the idea of me having a side project-unless they have one themselves. I think they believe it's pretty strange to making something not work related. I'm not sure I've worked with many programmers at all who read on the side let alone make much of anything. Maybe my experience is just weird.
- pkteison 15y ago
  No, it's normal at big companies or non programming firms. Spare mental capacity is devoted to sports teams and American Idol.
  - jasonlotito 15y ago
    Or family and friends, or dealing with the bureaucracy of the craptastic health care that is against providing your autistic son anything besides false sentiment and lies. Unfortunately, the tech industry places too much value on things like Twitter.
barrkel 15y ago
Per my contract, every creative thought and act I perform while employed belongs to my employer. My contract could be interpreted to mean that even my comments here are owned by my employer. Rather demotivating for genuine side-projects.
- alnayyir 15y ago
  You are protected from this completely in the state of California. One of the many reasons this state is so great.
  - georgieporgie 15y ago
    Really? Do you have any citations/references? It would be good to have some on hand. :-)
    - alnayyir 15y ago
      http://www.ndasforfree.com/NDAS/GetEmployeeOwn.html http://www.ndasforfree.com/NDAS/GetEmployeeOwn.html QUOTE California is unique in that its laws expressly establish that the employer owns trade secrets created by an employee. (Cal. Labor Code Sec. 2860). However, an employer in California would not own trade secrets created on an employee's own time without the use of employee materials. Although the law does not require a contract, it's a good idea to buttress your position in California by the use of a written agreement. UNQUOTE
  - tricolon 15y ago
    What about New York?
    - alnayyir 15y ago
      I'm a coder, not a lawyer. If you have a specific concern you should discuss it with an IP lawyer.
- xxpor 15y ago
  Is that even enforceable? If it is, I hope, for your sake, they are paying you EXTREMELY well.
cletus 15y ago
I have mixed feelings about side projects. Sure it sounds good and looks good but let me tell you my own example. I am a single core processor. I am pretty much capable of doing pretty much just one thing at a time. I've tried to multi-task to the point of switching off from what I'm doing at work to something else but it just doesn't work. One or both of them suffer. I tend to be engrossed in what I'm doing at work. If I'm bored with what I'm doing I'm in the wrong job and that just doesn't last long before I throw in the towel. Sometimes I'll work on that problem more. Sometimes I'll just do research/reading on that or related topics. But I just don't really have the knack of switching off from solving that problem and picking up something else with equal vigour. I have the same issue when it comes to learning new programming languages. I tend to have limited success when doing it on my own. Where I succeed is when I HAVE TO learn a new language, typically because that's now my job. It reminds me of the scene from Swordfish where Travolta and Jackman are being chased in the car by a hit team, Travolta hands over the wheel to man the machine gun. Jackman says "I don't know how to drive this." "Learn!" was the response. I get the feeling that the US (I'm Australian) has cultural differences that come into play here. For example, the education system in the US seems to have a very strong focus on extracurricular activities, something that doesn't seem to exist (to anywhere near that degree) in Australia. This includes sports, social clubs, community service and so on. So much so that it can be an important part of getting into the right college and then the right graduate school (Australian universities, at least when I got my degree, typically just looked at your Tertiary Entrance Score and that's about it; in fact the whole system was AUTOMATED on that). The TES being a scaled combination of exam and coursework. I wonder if there is a culture of multitasking because of this? Whatever the case... I am a single core processor.
- ww520 15y ago
  I understand the issues with being "single core processor" developer. The way to deal with it is to set aside one or two-week time period for the side projects. Use those times exclusively for the projects, doing them one at a time. So far it has work well for me.
- hetaoblog 15y ago
  my feeling is that for side projects, i must finish one sub-task in 3 hours, then things will move on; otherwise it will be a long todo list
ww520 15y ago
Side projects are great. They are great motivator for learning new stuffs. There are so far you can go with tutorial or sample codes. You have to do it in a serious enough project to learn the nitty gritty details. Some of them will die away but some will stick. Here're my recent more successful side-projects. http://www.previouslook.com/hnews http://www.previouslook.com/hnews http://www.topchan.tv http://www.topchan.tv Android game Starxscape.
- ardit33 15y ago
  I agree with ww250. I always have had some small-ish projects on the side. Some for fun, some for more serious things. Most didn't make it past the prototype phase, expect two of them. And one of them helped me a lot when I was interviewing for the current job (it is actually a non-trivial/large project). As long as they don't become your main focus, small projects will actually help on your day to day job. (you end up applying a lot of the things that you learn on your side projects, to your day to day job). Cool, game ww250. BTW are you looking for a job? I am working currently at Yammer, and we are looking for few good Android developers. (iOS as well). shoot me an email at ardit33@gmail.com
bsmith 15y ago
I recently applied to a PHP dev position. I told the CEO that if hired I would still be working on a side project or two...didn't get the job. Obviously not the kind of place I want to be working, anyway.
coenhyde 15y ago
I like side projects. I have a few myself for many of the reasons listed here. In fact I'm much more inclined hire someone who has side projects. It shows they have a passion for programming/creating things.
Sandman 15y ago
I can definitely relate to the part that talks about analysis paralysis. When starting a new project, like everybody else, I'm usually faced with several different options on how I'm going to design it, which libraries I'm going to use, what the overall architecture is going to look like, what features I'll implement and so on. And very often, I get stuck deciding between two options, weighing which one is better, which one might prove to be a bad decision in the future and which one might make my code more flexible/inflexible to change and refactoring. But then I slap myself (figuratively, of course) and remember to "just do it". To just release any kind of working code, never mind if it's a suboptimal design, never mind if there are a few bugs or if it's slower than it could be. The important thing is to release anything. The code can be improved upon after that.
- Hisoka 15y ago
  I fall into the same trap. It's an addiction to perfection.
JoeAltmaier 15y ago
My side project turned into a consulting company and fed my family for 4 years. Now I'm on my own again, still consulting. Its kind of like every project is a side project - they change from month to month and lots of new development. Now my main project gets to be my family, which is really a great life. Envy me.
petercooper 15y ago
Don't quote me on this in a court of law but I'm pretty sure all of my current main sources of income (other than consulting) started life as side projects, including a site I sold for 5 figures, a technology I sold for 6 figures, and most of my current sites which provide a day to day income now (the biggest of which was set up as a side project to try and help promote a book I was writing at the time). A personal blog I started in 2003 as a laugh made mid 4 figures every month in 2008 with Adsense (but almost nothing now, bah). I started an e-mail newsletter as a side project in August last year.. now up to 12k subscribers across 2 newsletters and making a little money some weeks. Side projects rock! They sniff out your true interests and true motivations. But.. I doubt they're for everybody, naturally.
- buildorfail 15y ago
  That is pretty awesome. Nice work. It also keeps the gears turning in your head to constantly re-invest and re-invent

132 points by rawsyntax 15y ago

pnathan 15y ago

I see side projects as a key indicator of someone who is focused on becoming better, instead of just paying the bills.

rawsyntax 15y ago

I'm the author, will answer any questions / criticisms of the post. Thanks for the upvotes

wallflower 15y ago
I really liked your succinct definition of what a side project is. What are your thoughts/experiences/opinions on team side projects?
- rawsyntax 15y ago
  I find it can be hard to sync up schedules and reliably work on it each week.
  - wallflower 15y ago
    Interesting, the most successful team side project I've ever worked on - we met regularly every week at a coffee shop. Looking back, that served two purposes - one, nothing beats face to face debugging and arguing over the merits of various UX approaches and two, having that weekly meeting was a hard deadline - that pushed each of us to get their stuff done and committed to the repository before the meeting (even if it was 5 min. prior to the meeting).

Swizec 15y ago

Balance, though, is key. I've never quite managed to figure out how to make sure an exciting side project doesn't consume my life leaving everything else to rot, or conversely, how to keep a side project sufficiently alive when swamped with more important things.

rawsyntax 15y ago
I always make sure the work that's paying the bills is done, before I work on the side project. Other than that, I'll typically commit to 5 hours a week. Usually in 2 sessions.
- akaak 15y ago
  having a dedicated time to work on the side project tasks is a good idea. Balance does matter and it is sometimes difficult to stop what you want to do on the side project. OP's point about not getting into analysis/paralysis is the reason that I work on the side projects just to get see if the damn thing works or not.

exratione 15y ago

Seems to be a common theme around here: http://www.exratione.com/2011/03/the-side-project-considered-as-a-necessity.php http://www.exratione.com/2011/03/the-side-project-considered... "It seems strange to me that there exist developers who do not have side-projects: exploratory exercises in coding, tinkering, and scratching personal itches that run on the weekends, or here and there in the evenings as a replacement for mindlessly consuming mass-market entertainment. Do these people not enjoy their chosen profession?"

rawsyntax 15y ago
I once met a few developers through a friend of mine. My impression was that they had no passion for the job. Programming pays well if you're good at it. I think there are a lot of programmers who are just paying their bills.
pagekalisedown 15y ago
Wait 'til you have kids.
- jackbean 15y ago
  I don't have kids and it is highly hypocritical of me to say so but "Leo Tolstoy wrote War and Peace while living with his wife and 13 children."
  - bmunro 15y ago
    Was War and Peace a side project or the main project? If it wasn't done as a side project then it isn't really relevant.
    - the_decider 15y ago
      War and Peace was the side project. Tolstoy's main project consisted of managing the land and peasents on his country estate.
  - gruseom 15y ago

dkersten 15y ago

My latest side project just attracted attention in a big way and it looks likely that we (myself and my brother; we worked on it together) will be founding a startup around it soon. We started the project for fun and all we expected out of it was some cool toys to play with, a little "oh thats cool" publicity and a fun learning experience. Its been a crazy past few weeks. So, yes, side projects are very important!

jswinghammer 15y ago

I've found that most of my coworkers over the years don't really react very well to the idea of me having a side project-unless they have one themselves. I think they believe it's pretty strange to making something not work related. I'm not sure I've worked with many programmers at all who read on the side let alone make much of anything. Maybe my experience is just weird.

pkteison 15y ago
No, it's normal at big companies or non programming firms. Spare mental capacity is devoted to sports teams and American Idol.
- jasonlotito 15y ago
  Or family and friends, or dealing with the bureaucracy of the craptastic health care that is against providing your autistic son anything besides false sentiment and lies. Unfortunately, the tech industry places too much value on things like Twitter.

barrkel 15y ago

Per my contract, every creative thought and act I perform while employed belongs to my employer. My contract could be interpreted to mean that even my comments here are owned by my employer. Rather demotivating for genuine side-projects.

alnayyir 15y ago
You are protected from this completely in the state of California. One of the many reasons this state is so great.
- georgieporgie 15y ago
  Really? Do you have any citations/references? It would be good to have some on hand. :-)
  - alnayyir 15y ago
    http://www.ndasforfree.com/NDAS/GetEmployeeOwn.html http://www.ndasforfree.com/NDAS/GetEmployeeOwn.html QUOTE California is unique in that its laws expressly establish that the employer owns trade secrets created by an employee. (Cal. Labor Code Sec. 2860). However, an employer in California would not own trade secrets created on an employee's own time without the use of employee materials. Although the law does not require a contract, it's a good idea to buttress your position in California by the use of a written agreement. UNQUOTE
- tricolon 15y ago
  What about New York?
  - alnayyir 15y ago
    I'm a coder, not a lawyer. If you have a specific concern you should discuss it with an IP lawyer.
xxpor 15y ago
Is that even enforceable? If it is, I hope, for your sake, they are paying you EXTREMELY well.

cletus 15y ago

I have mixed feelings about side projects. Sure it sounds good and looks good but let me tell you my own example. I am a single core processor. I am pretty much capable of doing pretty much just one thing at a time. I've tried to multi-task to the point of switching off from what I'm doing at work to something else but it just doesn't work. One or both of them suffer. I tend to be engrossed in what I'm doing at work. If I'm bored with what I'm doing I'm in the wrong job and that just doesn't last long before I throw in the towel. Sometimes I'll work on that problem more. Sometimes I'll just do research/reading on that or related topics. But I just don't really have the knack of switching off from solving that problem and picking up something else with equal vigour. I have the same issue when it comes to learning new programming languages. I tend to have limited success when doing it on my own. Where I succeed is when I HAVE TO learn a new language, typically because that's now my job. It reminds me of the scene from Swordfish where Travolta and Jackman are being chased in the car by a hit team, Travolta hands over the wheel to man the machine gun. Jackman says "I don't know how to drive this." "Learn!" was the response. I get the feeling that the US (I'm Australian) has cultural differences that come into play here. For example, the education system in the US seems to have a very strong focus on extracurricular activities, something that doesn't seem to exist (to anywhere near that degree) in Australia. This includes sports, social clubs, community service and so on. So much so that it can be an important part of getting into the right college and then the right graduate school (Australian universities, at least when I got my degree, typically just looked at your Tertiary Entrance Score and that's about it; in fact the whole system was AUTOMATED on that). The TES being a scaled combination of exam and coursework. I wonder if there is a culture of multitasking because of this? Whatever the case... I am a single core processor.

ww520 15y ago
I understand the issues with being "single core processor" developer. The way to deal with it is to set aside one or two-week time period for the side projects. Use those times exclusively for the projects, doing them one at a time. So far it has work well for me.
hetaoblog 15y ago
my feeling is that for side projects, i must finish one sub-task in 3 hours, then things will move on; otherwise it will be a long todo list

ww520 15y ago

Side projects are great. They are great motivator for learning new stuffs. There are so far you can go with tutorial or sample codes. You have to do it in a serious enough project to learn the nitty gritty details. Some of them will die away but some will stick. Here're my recent more successful side-projects. http://www.previouslook.com/hnews http://www.previouslook.com/hnews http://www.topchan.tv http://www.topchan.tv Android game Starxscape.

ardit33 15y ago
I agree with ww250. I always have had some small-ish projects on the side. Some for fun, some for more serious things. Most didn't make it past the prototype phase, expect two of them. And one of them helped me a lot when I was interviewing for the current job (it is actually a non-trivial/large project). As long as they don't become your main focus, small projects will actually help on your day to day job. (you end up applying a lot of the things that you learn on your side projects, to your day to day job). Cool, game ww250. BTW are you looking for a job? I am working currently at Yammer, and we are looking for few good Android developers. (iOS as well). shoot me an email at ardit33@gmail.com

bsmith 15y ago

I recently applied to a PHP dev position. I told the CEO that if hired I would still be working on a side project or two...didn't get the job. Obviously not the kind of place I want to be working, anyway.

coenhyde 15y ago

I like side projects. I have a few myself for many of the reasons listed here. In fact I'm much more inclined hire someone who has side projects. It shows they have a passion for programming/creating things.

Sandman 15y ago

I can definitely relate to the part that talks about analysis paralysis. When starting a new project, like everybody else, I'm usually faced with several different options on how I'm going to design it, which libraries I'm going to use, what the overall architecture is going to look like, what features I'll implement and so on. And very often, I get stuck deciding between two options, weighing which one is better, which one might prove to be a bad decision in the future and which one might make my code more flexible/inflexible to change and refactoring. But then I slap myself (figuratively, of course) and remember to "just do it". To just release any kind of working code, never mind if it's a suboptimal design, never mind if there are a few bugs or if it's slower than it could be. The important thing is to release anything. The code can be improved upon after that.

Hisoka 15y ago
I fall into the same trap. It's an addiction to perfection.

JoeAltmaier 15y ago

My side project turned into a consulting company and fed my family for 4 years. Now I'm on my own again, still consulting. Its kind of like every project is a side project - they change from month to month and lots of new development. Now my main project gets to be my family, which is really a great life. Envy me.

petercooper 15y ago

Don't quote me on this in a court of law but I'm pretty sure all of my current main sources of income (other than consulting) started life as side projects, including a site I sold for 5 figures, a technology I sold for 6 figures, and most of my current sites which provide a day to day income now (the biggest of which was set up as a side project to try and help promote a book I was writing at the time). A personal blog I started in 2003 as a laugh made mid 4 figures every month in 2008 with Adsense (but almost nothing now, bah). I started an e-mail newsletter as a side project in August last year.. now up to 12k subscribers across 2 newsletters and making a little money some weeks. Side projects rock! They sniff out your true interests and true motivations. But.. I doubt they're for everybody, naturally.

buildorfail 15y ago
That is pretty awesome. Nice work. It also keeps the gears turning in your head to constantly re-invest and re-invent