6 ms·

Very few of the people who wrote to me are of conservative political orientation. Rather, a main thread in the missives is people left-of-center wondering why,

Very few of the people who wrote to me are of conservative political orientation. Rather, a main thread in the missives is people left-of-center wondering why, suddenly, to be anything but radical is to be treated as a retrograde heretic. Thus the issue is not the age-old one of left against right, but what one letter writer calls the “circular firing squad” of the left: It is now no longer “Why aren’t you on the left?” but “How dare you not be as left as we are.” This is the most revealing quote for me as a fellow left-of-centre person disgusted by this behaviour that overwhelmingly comes from our side. It's shocking to me that after a few years of this stuff there are still people on the left - including regularly on this site - in denial.

julianapostate 6y ago
As a former left leaning person who saw this coming ten years ago when will you say it’s too much and vote against the left?
- mellosouls 6y ago
  This is a great question that I often ask myself (I've also been railing against it for years), but its in my blood. A Labour voter, I could vote against the left, but (unless it was to keep extremist left or right wing parties out) I don't think I could ever vote for the Tories.
  - deathgrips 6y ago
    Do you think you're different than someone who would rather vote for the extreme right than vote for the moderate left?
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      The Labour party are very much not extreme so they are by definition different as per your question.
eesmith 6y ago
I guess I'm so far to the left that I have a hard time believing in "cancel culture" as anything meaningful. Take the example of Steven Pinker, given in article. Those students explicitly said that they were not trying to cancel Pinker, and the goal was not to expel him from the association, but only to have the association withdraw special privileges that Picker was granted. How is that "cancel"? Now compare it to the calls to get Cheney out of office in WY. How is that not cancel culture? Or when Milo Yiannopoulos was de-platformed from the Republican convention - again, why isn't that called "cancel culture"? My conclusion is that "cancel culture" is a made-up term used to minimize the negative influence of criticism from the left, even when valid. As for "in denial", I am reminded of Phil Ochs' commentary in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Me,_I%27m_a_Liberal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Me,_I%27m_a_Liberal : > In every American community there are varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects, ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally. Here, then, is a lesson in safe logic. and of MLK's grave disappointment with white moderates.
- bendbro 6y ago
  > I guess I'm so far to the left that I have a hard time believing in "cancel culture" as anything meaningful That's likely. Though i'm not sure that it really matters whether lefties recognize it or not, because the culture war won't be won by the side practicing logic and understanding. Essentially anyone who has ever felt and inkling of skepticism at whatever progressive proposal is currently at the fore will know that cancel culture exists. It's very obvious at tech companies, where far left political slogans are carelessly bandied about, and mere hints of doubt or disagreement tend to cause drama. For example, I work somewhere than no longer allows you to program the words "blacklist" or "master," and the list of terms they have in the works is hilariously impressive. It's hard to prove cancel culture exists unless you personally experience it. That said, I will attempt to do so with some prominent examples: 1. Barack Obama on the circular firing squad: https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/06/barack-obama-progressives-circular-firing-squad-democrats https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/06/barack-obama... 2. Noam Chomsky (among others) in the Harper's Letter: https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/ https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/ 3. Philosophy professors on cancel culture: https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2019/07/22/philosophers-should-not-be-sanctioned-their-positions-sex-and-gender-opinion https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2019/07/22/philosophers... 4. Left wing twitch streamer loses partnership after Kenosha comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_(streamer)#:~:text=This%20led%20to%20temporary%20suspensions%20from%20the%20Twitch%20platform%20for%20insensitive%20language.&text=Destiny%20lost%20his%20eligibility%20as,during%20the%20George%20Floyd%20protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_(streamer)#:~:text=Thi... 5. Covington kid: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2019_Lincoln_Memorial_confrontation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2019_Lincoln_Memoria... Some examples from the programming community and other places i found amusing: 1. Verified twitter response (from media and academics) to a Covid19 study: https://mobile.twitter.com/JAMA_current/status/1304102350857154567 https://mobile.twitter.com/JAMA_current/status/1304102350857... 2. Richard Stallman cancelled: https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/09/richard-stallman-leaves-mit-after-controversial-remarks-on-rape/%3famp=1 https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201... 3. The infamous donglegate 4. Some professor fired for not giving students time off after george floyd: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxbusiness.com/money/ucla-professor-suspended-final-examination-lecturer.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxbusiness.com/money/ucla-... I just wish things would get disgustingly progressive, fast, instead of teasing me into thinking the simple, hegemonic culture of the 90s is still a possibility.
FriedrichN 6y ago
I am reminded of an article I read not too long ago. About how white people basically need to lay down and die for the sin of being white. > [..] there are several ways that white liberals can practice what they post. By giving up privilege, higher salaries, houses in gentrified parts of Texas, and other situations that convenience them, white liberals could prove that they’re actually doing the work [..] Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/white-liberals-social-media-activism https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/white-liberals... There's this idea among these extremists that being white and having even moderate success could only have come from them being white, nothing else. Having anything and not giving it away to whatever underprivileged group is equal to owning slaves and committing genocide. The very last line of the article says "Maybe that’s why white people keep voting for Trump – they are invested, financially but also psychologically, in keeping the society tipped in our favor". It just show how far off they are, people voted for Trump because they felt they would never be good enough anyway. When you can't wash off the original sin of being a cis-white heterosexual male, why even bother trying to 'redeem yourself'?
- oceanghost 6y ago
  I couldn't agree with you more. You might find this to be a well reasoned, scientific explanation of your thesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1sJgjG5AF4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1sJgjG5AF4

julianapostate 6y ago

As a former left leaning person who saw this coming ten years ago when will you say it’s too much and vote against the left?

mellosouls 6y ago
This is a great question that I often ask myself (I've also been railing against it for years), but its in my blood. A Labour voter, I could vote against the left, but (unless it was to keep extremist left or right wing parties out) I don't think I could ever vote for the Tories.
- deathgrips 6y ago
  Do you think you're different than someone who would rather vote for the extreme right than vote for the moderate left?
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    The Labour party are very much not extreme so they are by definition different as per your question.

eesmith 6y ago

I guess I'm so far to the left that I have a hard time believing in "cancel culture" as anything meaningful. Take the example of Steven Pinker, given in article. Those students explicitly said that they were not trying to cancel Pinker, and the goal was not to expel him from the association, but only to have the association withdraw special privileges that Picker was granted. How is that "cancel"? Now compare it to the calls to get Cheney out of office in WY. How is that not cancel culture? Or when Milo Yiannopoulos was de-platformed from the Republican convention - again, why isn't that called "cancel culture"? My conclusion is that "cancel culture" is a made-up term used to minimize the negative influence of criticism from the left, even when valid. As for "in denial", I am reminded of Phil Ochs' commentary in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Me,_I%27m_a_Liberal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Me,_I%27m_a_Liberal : > In every American community there are varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects, ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally. Here, then, is a lesson in safe logic. and of MLK's grave disappointment with white moderates.

bendbro 6y ago
> I guess I'm so far to the left that I have a hard time believing in "cancel culture" as anything meaningful That's likely. Though i'm not sure that it really matters whether lefties recognize it or not, because the culture war won't be won by the side practicing logic and understanding. Essentially anyone who has ever felt and inkling of skepticism at whatever progressive proposal is currently at the fore will know that cancel culture exists. It's very obvious at tech companies, where far left political slogans are carelessly bandied about, and mere hints of doubt or disagreement tend to cause drama. For example, I work somewhere than no longer allows you to program the words "blacklist" or "master," and the list of terms they have in the works is hilariously impressive. It's hard to prove cancel culture exists unless you personally experience it. That said, I will attempt to do so with some prominent examples: 1. Barack Obama on the circular firing squad: https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/06/barack-obama-progressives-circular-firing-squad-democrats https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/06/barack-obama... 2. Noam Chomsky (among others) in the Harper's Letter: https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/ https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/ 3. Philosophy professors on cancel culture: https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2019/07/22/philosophers-should-not-be-sanctioned-their-positions-sex-and-gender-opinion https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2019/07/22/philosophers... 4. Left wing twitch streamer loses partnership after Kenosha comments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_(streamer)#:~:text=This%20led%20to%20temporary%20suspensions%20from%20the%20Twitch%20platform%20for%20insensitive%20language.&text=Destiny%20lost%20his%20eligibility%20as,during%20the%20George%20Floyd%20protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_(streamer)#:~:text=Thi... 5. Covington kid: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2019_Lincoln_Memorial_confrontation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2019_Lincoln_Memoria... Some examples from the programming community and other places i found amusing: 1. Verified twitter response (from media and academics) to a Covid19 study: https://mobile.twitter.com/JAMA_current/status/1304102350857154567 https://mobile.twitter.com/JAMA_current/status/1304102350857... 2. Richard Stallman cancelled: https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/09/richard-stallman-leaves-mit-after-controversial-remarks-on-rape/%3famp=1 https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201... 3. The infamous donglegate 4. Some professor fired for not giving students time off after george floyd: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxbusiness.com/money/ucla-professor-suspended-final-examination-lecturer.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxbusiness.com/money/ucla-... I just wish things would get disgustingly progressive, fast, instead of teasing me into thinking the simple, hegemonic culture of the 90s is still a possibility.

FriedrichN 6y ago

I am reminded of an article I read not too long ago. About how white people basically need to lay down and die for the sin of being white. > [..] there are several ways that white liberals can practice what they post. By giving up privilege, higher salaries, houses in gentrified parts of Texas, and other situations that convenience them, white liberals could prove that they’re actually doing the work [..] Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/white-liberals-social-media-activism https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/white-liberals... There's this idea among these extremists that being white and having even moderate success could only have come from them being white, nothing else. Having anything and not giving it away to whatever underprivileged group is equal to owning slaves and committing genocide. The very last line of the article says "Maybe that’s why white people keep voting for Trump – they are invested, financially but also psychologically, in keeping the society tipped in our favor". It just show how far off they are, people voted for Trump because they felt they would never be good enough anyway. When you can't wash off the original sin of being a cis-white heterosexual male, why even bother trying to 'redeem yourself'?

oceanghost 6y ago
I couldn't agree with you more. You might find this to be a well reasoned, scientific explanation of your thesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1sJgjG5AF4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1sJgjG5AF4