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So very much this when it comes to how easily money can be wasted on these kinds of deals. Can’t agree at all with the ageism though, which is wholly uncalled

So very much this when it comes to how easily money can be wasted on these kinds of deals. Can’t agree at all with the ageism though, which is wholly uncalled for.

j45 6y ago
I don't mean to support any ageism and would be happy to withdraw my age reference. What that may leave is decision makers who don't always have a high enough level of digital or technical literacy. Folks who are not competent in technology decisions and implementations being in positions of decision making and spending is the point I was trying to make.
- rob74 6y ago
  Ever heard of the Peter principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle) ?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - j45 6y ago
    Haha, have heard of that principle but not what it was called.
eckza 6y ago
Careful with your line of reasoning. There is a difference between "ageism", and "being honest about how hard some problems are to solve". There are a lot of unbelievably brilliant 22-year-olds. None of them have been building enterprise-scale architectures that turn messy, vague, and incomplete requirements that model even more messy, vague, and incomplete business processes for 20 years.
- ironmagma 6y ago
  Doing something for 20 years does not necessarily make someone better at it than someone who’s done it for 5 years. Arguably doing something for that long could even make you worse.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  > None of them have been building enterprise-scale architectures that turn messy, vague, and incomplete requirements that model even more messy, vague, and incomplete business processes for 20 years. Exactly! If you’ve been doing that for 20 years I do not want to work with you, since you are apparently perfectly content with that status quo. I’ve been doing it for two years and it’s already too much. My highest priority is fixing their chronically useless requirements.
  - headmelted 6y ago
    I’m glad you’ve clarified as when you said that it sounded like you’re astonished at the level of apathy and/or incompetence you’re surrounded with and I was worried for a second that you’ve just too little experience to understand that your predecessors have very likely been trying for much of that time to push back against the status quo and have better ideas implemented, likely swimming upstream against resistance you’re wholly unaware of. But it’s clearly not that after all, which is a relief - I’m glad it’s just a case of everyone else that’s come before you being useless. Boomers, am I right?
    - Aeolun 6y ago
      Is it just me, or are you being needlessly sarcastic here? The resistance is ridiculous, but it’s still the single most valuable thing we can be doing to improve our project delivery. Given the current division of people that care/not care (or are disinclined to act on it?). It is entirely likely that none of my predecessors did. That said, if they had been doing it (and made any progress), I really wonder what the previous situation was. Maybe there just weren’t any requirements at all?
      - 6y ago

So very much this when it comes to how easily money can be wasted on these kinds of deals. Can’t agree at all with the ageism though, which is wholly uncalled for.

j45 6y ago

I don't mean to support any ageism and would be happy to withdraw my age reference. What that may leave is decision makers who don't always have a high enough level of digital or technical literacy. Folks who are not competent in technology decisions and implementations being in positions of decision making and spending is the point I was trying to make.

rob74 6y ago
Ever heard of the Peter principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle) ?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- j45 6y ago
  Haha, have heard of that principle but not what it was called.

eckza 6y ago

Careful with your line of reasoning. There is a difference between "ageism", and "being honest about how hard some problems are to solve". There are a lot of unbelievably brilliant 22-year-olds. None of them have been building enterprise-scale architectures that turn messy, vague, and incomplete requirements that model even more messy, vague, and incomplete business processes for 20 years.

ironmagma 6y ago
Doing something for 20 years does not necessarily make someone better at it than someone who’s done it for 5 years. Arguably doing something for that long could even make you worse.
Aeolun 6y ago
> None of them have been building enterprise-scale architectures that turn messy, vague, and incomplete requirements that model even more messy, vague, and incomplete business processes for 20 years. Exactly! If you’ve been doing that for 20 years I do not want to work with you, since you are apparently perfectly content with that status quo. I’ve been doing it for two years and it’s already too much. My highest priority is fixing their chronically useless requirements.
- headmelted 6y ago
  I’m glad you’ve clarified as when you said that it sounded like you’re astonished at the level of apathy and/or incompetence you’re surrounded with and I was worried for a second that you’ve just too little experience to understand that your predecessors have very likely been trying for much of that time to push back against the status quo and have better ideas implemented, likely swimming upstream against resistance you’re wholly unaware of. But it’s clearly not that after all, which is a relief - I’m glad it’s just a case of everyone else that’s come before you being useless. Boomers, am I right?
  - Aeolun 6y ago
    Is it just me, or are you being needlessly sarcastic here? The resistance is ridiculous, but it’s still the single most valuable thing we can be doing to improve our project delivery. Given the current division of people that care/not care (or are disinclined to act on it?). It is entirely likely that none of my predecessors did. That said, if they had been doing it (and made any progress), I really wonder what the previous situation was. Maybe there just weren’t any requirements at all?
    - 6y ago