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Yes, that is slavery. You could argue that a less organized de facto system of slavery exists for migrant workers in many other countries including the USA. Mi
by api 6y ago
Yes, that is slavery.
You could argue that a less organized de facto system of slavery exists for migrant workers in many other countries including the USA. Migrants roam in and work but really have no rights as they are undocumented. People can intimidate them or worse largely with impunity because who would bother investigating? Sure technically it’s illegal to abuse migrants but nobody’s watching.
Migrant work is something that really demands a coordinated international effort to reform.
Then you have Uyghur forced labor in China.
Slavery has not been abolished in anything but name.
- pk_kinetic 6y agoNot to mention the prison-industrial complex in the US.
- threatofrain 6y agoWhere does the wealth from such labor go?
- humbledrone 6y agoThe shareholders for the private prisons in which they are incarcerated: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/10/how-private-prisons-profit-from-forced-labor https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/10/how-private-prisons-p... :(
- garrettgrimsley 6y ago“In 2015, just 8% of the nearly 1.53 million state and federal prisoners in the U.S. were in private facilities” [0]. Prison slavery is not concentrated in and won’t disappear by closing private prisons. [1] [0]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/11/u-s-private-prison-population-has-declined-in-recent-years/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/11/u-s-private... [1]https://corpaccountabilitylab.org/calblog/2020/8/5/private-companies-producing-with-us-prison-labor-in-2020-prison-labor-in-the-us-part-ii https://corpaccountabilitylab.org/calblog/2020/8/5/private-c...
- rrsmtz 6y agoSometimes it's used by the state itself for cost savings, as in California under then-attorney general Kamala Harris (now Vice President): > “Extending 2-for-1 credits to all minimum custody inmates at this time would severely impact fire camp participation — a dangerous outcome while California is in the middle of a difficult fire season and severe drought,” lawyers from Harris’s office wrote in a filing. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/kamala-harris-office-sought-to-keep-inmates-locked-up-so-that-california-could-use-them-for-cheap-labor https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/kamala-harris-of...
- Tiktaalik 6y agoThe benefits of reduced labour costs are the middle class. Similarly the middle class benefits from the lower working class wages that come from exploitation of illegal immigrants.
- lupire 6y agoWell, the upper middle class who have higher tier jobs. Not the working middle class. (In USA everyone is "middle" class, because most are too proud to have class consciousness.)
- stonecraftwolf 6y agoIIRC the first prison in the US was established in Auburn, NY specifically because slavery had been outlawed and some sociopath was like “ok, yeah, technically, but if we just convict them of a crime first...”
- ceejayoz 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_State_Penitentiary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_State_Penitentiary serves as a notable modern example.
- lupire 6y agoNo. The Auburn prison was not the first prison, and it employed prisoner slave labor before slavery was outlawed. Prison slavery existed before chattel slavery was rerouted through the prison system. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_system
- boxmonster 6y agoI see nothing wrong with making prisoners earn their keep
- coldtea 6y agoDo you see anything wrong with having the most incancerated population in the world (25% of the global prison population for just 5% of the world population), or having the most horrendous prison conditions in all the western world? Do you see anything wrong with blacks and latinos being overrepresented? Do you see anything wrong with being such a backwater that you still have the death penalty, not to mention BS like "three strikes" laws? Do you see anything wrong with forced prison labor undercutting regular businesses in the same areas?
- trianglem 6y agoWhen they work for a $1/hr and put actual contractors out of business you understand why it’s like slave labor.
- Animats 6y agoEven Alcatraz didn't do that. "You are entitled to food, clothing, shelter, and medical care. Everything else is a privilege" - Alcatraz rules.
- michaelmrose 6y agoPrivate businesses pay private prisons far more than the prisoners get paid but less than legit labor driving out fairly paid labor. Everyone who is benefiting lobbies far stricter laws and harsher sentences not for societies benefit but so their labor force can grow. This slave labor is disproportionately taken from minorities and the poor who it is more acceptable to enslave. Mostly by patrolling areas which have lots of minorities and shaking them down in hopes of finding drugs. See the fact that black and white people do drugs at the same rate but white people are far less likely to be prosecuted. In one case they actually caught 2 judges taking bribes from private detention to hand juvenile offenders maximum sentences. Effectively selling other people's kids. Banning private prisons only removes a fraction of the incentive.
- AndyMcConachie 6y agoYou can buy products from American prison slaves here. https://unicor.gov/index.aspx https://unicor.gov/index.aspx
- goatinaboat 6y agoNot to mention the prison-industrial complex in the US. Kept well supplied with labour thanks to Kamala Harris and her draconian persecution of marijuana related “crimes”.
- cheph 6y ago> Migrants roam in and work but really have no rights as they are undocumented. If they don't want that situation they could always just not enter the US illegally.
- ch4s3 6y ago> they could always immigrate legally The current immigration system makes that impossible for most workers without degrees and from outside of a few select countries.
- cheph 6y agoSo then they can go somewhere else. There are billion of people living outside of the US. To suggest they are slaves because they chose to illegally enter the US makes no sense.
- ch4s3 6y agoI never said that, just that legal immigration to the US is basically closed to everyone, which is historically unusual for the US. I also think it's antithetical to the American project.
- cheph 6y agoSo then how are these people slaves if they could just not voluntarily choose to illegally enter a systemically racist country where people of color are hunted by cops like dogs and treated as subhuman trash by all white people?
- blix 6y agoIn many ancient Roman and Greek societies, migrant labor was actually lower on the totem pole than slavery. If you are a slave, at least your owner theoretically has an interest in your survival.
- antman 6y agoLet's point out that being a slave in those societies until very late in their existence did not always mean being locked with a chain. You would take out a loan or lose a costly war and there were whole shopping districts like Keramikos (pottery shops area) in Athens where the slaves had shops and tried to earn their way out of slavery. Any similarities with present societal structures purely circumstancial ofcourse.
- sudosysgen 6y agoIt's actually really depressing reading about this :/
- andrewjl 6y agoSounds really close to the current student loan regime in the US when you think about it.
- lupire 6y agoNo it doesn't. You came do whatever you want while you pay back loans.
- sudosysgen 6y agoIt was actually the same way. Outside of their slavery obligations, they were allowed to do whatever they wanted to pay back their sum to earn freedom, more or less. And of course, they did have their housing and food covered meanwhile.
- fuzzfactor 6y ago
- rgbrenner 6y agoMigrants, even illegal migrants, in the United States DO have rights. The bill of rights covers all people in our country, whether they are undocumented, tourists, students, or whatever. If you abuse them, they may be deported, but you can be prosecuted and serve prison time for abusing them. Taking away someone Visa is a crime too.. and preventing them from leaving is a felony. And we prosecute people all the time for that.. human traffickers, for example.
- m463 6y agoYou should read about migrants from central or south america - what they go through while traveling through intervening countries and mexico and then coyotes. And deportation back to that is a real threat which means they will shut up in the US. EDIT: wasn't picking on the US, just saying it's only part of their journey, and once they're in the US, lots of stuff goes unreported.
- rgbrenner 6y agoThere is a power imbalance between the employer and an illegal immigrant... they can certainly push that further than they could with a us citizen, but since they do have rights, there are limits to the abuse. The immigrant always has a way out, with the worst case penalty being deportation. Additionally: - In some cities ("sanctuary cities"), reporting a crime does not lead to deportation. - They can also apply for amnesty if the conditions in their home country are that bad. - Agencies accept anonymous reports. The immigrant doesnt even need to be working at the place at the time of the report. So depending on the circumstances of the abuse, there may be no consequences to the illegal immigrant for reporting.
- pseudo0 6y agoSounds like the real issue is the pull factor of lax immigration enforcement and widespread under the table employment in the US. We should be emulating the Australian model which has saved thousands of lives by effectively deterring dangerous human trafficking. With robust work visa verification and strict border security, coyotes and other human traffickers would be put out of business. Solve the problem of employers hiring illegal immigrants, and the issue of these employers abusing the inherent power imbalance disappears as well.