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What makes WSB legal vs emails about imminent pump on an unspectacular stock? What stops somebody from purchasing aged reddit accounts and then pumping up, upv

by f430 6y ago

What makes WSB legal vs emails about imminent pump on an unspectacular stock? What stops somebody from purchasing aged reddit accounts and then pumping up, upvoting their own threads?

tony0x02 6y ago
> What stops somebody from purchasing aged reddit accounts and then pumping up, upvoting their own threads? I think it is already happening. Search Reddit for Tootsie roll. One 3 yr old Reddit acct with no posts makes a flurry of posts about TR and it jumps 30% in 2 days.
JacobSuperslav 6y ago
nothing. I'm in the social media business and I can tell you it's very easy to make 5 figures/month gaming reddit(as an individual operation) using farmed accounts and it's been going on for years. Not necessarily with stock schemes. they got next to none security when it comes to stuff like this. agency that I worked at a few years ago literally had thousands of aged reddit/twitter accounts in their portfolio. there are whole apps available for sale that manage your reddit farms including fingerprint faking, proxy management, captcha solving(outsourced to developing countries), etc. the market for it is pretty huge. Edit: hints = look at porn subreddits, /r/entrepreneur, stock subreddits. By the way, some of the moderators are making a killing too (by promoting their "own" people)
- ALittleLight 6y ago
  How do you make 30-50k a month gaming reddit? I'm aware of buying upvotes and similar, but I have a hard time believing it's that profitable.
  - dualthro 6y ago
    My guess is putting out content and pumping it up or making it go viral, that somehow promotes clients of yours. Or your own products or affiliate programs or something.
    - JacobSuperslav 6y ago
      Exactly. Both.
- f430 6y ago
  there's just no way the SEC is sophisticated enough to catch this especially with untraceable forms of payment.
- somerando7 6y ago
  Please tell me how to make 30-50k a month gaming reddit. I will quit my job immediately
- synaesthesisx 6y ago
  It's not about gaming reddit, but rather about gaming the algorithms scraping WSB and attempting to correlate stock tickers with rocket and eggplant emojis as a form of sentiment analysis (Yes, this is a thing, and there is significant $$$ actually invested into this)
- freeflight 6y ago
  Except for the individual operation part, this sounds like a Fake Like Factory [0] [0] https://youtu.be/nmXACRrzLMA https://youtu.be/nmXACRrzLMA
  - JacobSuperslav 6y ago
    Except these guys have no idea how big and sophisticated it is they are just scraping the surface.
sn_master 6y ago
Look at DFV's account. He's been talking about GME since mid-2019.
- f430 6y ago
  I don't think anybody is denying that what I am talking about is the astrotrufing on reddit with commercial interests and unregulated crypto currency. My question is what stops somebody pulling off the same trick on WSB and how do we know? How can we know? Does the SEC know how to tell?
  - sn_master 6y ago
    But can anyone even do that? With crowds this big there has to be a number of sophisticated investors who'll be able to call anyone spewing BS out very early on.
- wtf_is_up 6y ago
  He has a very interesting youtube page under then pseudonym 'Roaring Kitty'.
seanalltogether 6y ago
matt levine talks about this very thing in one of his other posts on wsj > So if you buy stock with the purpose of pushing the price up so that other people will buy it, that’s market manipulation. If you buy stock hoping that the price will go up because other people buy it, that’s not market manipulation; that’s just normal. Those things are not so different. There is a “traditional four-part test for manipulation that has developed in case law”: (1) That the accused had the ability to influence market prices; (2) that the accused specifically intended to create or effect a price or price trend that does not reflect legitimate forces of supply and demand; (3) that artificial prices existed; and (4) that the accused caused the artificial prices.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ralph84 6y ago
  What is an artificial price and how does it differ from a real price?
  - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
    It's a price that "does not reflect legitimate forces of supply and demand". One of the canonical examples of an artificial price is spoofing, where you set up fake sell orders to trick people into thinking a stock is crashing so you can buy it at a discount.
    - ralph84 6y ago
      So when people who want to buy and have the funds to buy are prevented from buying by their broker, would the resulting price be one that "does not reflect legitimate forces of supply and demand"?
      - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
        In general, no, brokers being unwilling or unable to help facilitate a trade is a legitimate market factor. There's no fundamental right to have people trade with you. It's would of course be a different story if the broker's unwillingness came from their participation in a price manipulation scheme. I don't think that's really plausible here, although I suppose I wouldn't rule it out given the crazy dumb things Robinhood has done in the past.

by f430 6y ago

What makes WSB legal vs emails about imminent pump on an unspectacular stock? What stops somebody from purchasing aged reddit accounts and then pumping up, upvoting their own threads?

tony0x02 6y ago

> What stops somebody from purchasing aged reddit accounts and then pumping up, upvoting their own threads? I think it is already happening. Search Reddit for Tootsie roll. One 3 yr old Reddit acct with no posts makes a flurry of posts about TR and it jumps 30% in 2 days.

JacobSuperslav 6y ago

nothing. I'm in the social media business and I can tell you it's very easy to make 5 figures/month gaming reddit(as an individual operation) using farmed accounts and it's been going on for years. Not necessarily with stock schemes. they got next to none security when it comes to stuff like this. agency that I worked at a few years ago literally had thousands of aged reddit/twitter accounts in their portfolio. there are whole apps available for sale that manage your reddit farms including fingerprint faking, proxy management, captcha solving(outsourced to developing countries), etc. the market for it is pretty huge. Edit: hints = look at porn subreddits, /r/entrepreneur, stock subreddits. By the way, some of the moderators are making a killing too (by promoting their "own" people)

ALittleLight 6y ago
How do you make 30-50k a month gaming reddit? I'm aware of buying upvotes and similar, but I have a hard time believing it's that profitable.
- dualthro 6y ago
  My guess is putting out content and pumping it up or making it go viral, that somehow promotes clients of yours. Or your own products or affiliate programs or something.
  - JacobSuperslav 6y ago
    Exactly. Both.
f430 6y ago
there's just no way the SEC is sophisticated enough to catch this especially with untraceable forms of payment.
somerando7 6y ago
Please tell me how to make 30-50k a month gaming reddit. I will quit my job immediately
synaesthesisx 6y ago
It's not about gaming reddit, but rather about gaming the algorithms scraping WSB and attempting to correlate stock tickers with rocket and eggplant emojis as a form of sentiment analysis (Yes, this is a thing, and there is significant $$$ actually invested into this)
freeflight 6y ago
Except for the individual operation part, this sounds like a Fake Like Factory [0] [0] https://youtu.be/nmXACRrzLMA https://youtu.be/nmXACRrzLMA
- JacobSuperslav 6y ago
  Except these guys have no idea how big and sophisticated it is they are just scraping the surface.

sn_master 6y ago

Look at DFV's account. He's been talking about GME since mid-2019.

f430 6y ago
I don't think anybody is denying that what I am talking about is the astrotrufing on reddit with commercial interests and unregulated crypto currency. My question is what stops somebody pulling off the same trick on WSB and how do we know? How can we know? Does the SEC know how to tell?
- sn_master 6y ago
  But can anyone even do that? With crowds this big there has to be a number of sophisticated investors who'll be able to call anyone spewing BS out very early on.
wtf_is_up 6y ago
He has a very interesting youtube page under then pseudonym 'Roaring Kitty'.

seanalltogether 6y ago

matt levine talks about this very thing in one of his other posts on wsj > So if you buy stock with the purpose of pushing the price up so that other people will buy it, that’s market manipulation. If you buy stock hoping that the price will go up because other people buy it, that’s not market manipulation; that’s just normal. Those things are not so different. There is a “traditional four-part test for manipulation that has developed in case law”: (1) That the accused had the ability to influence market prices; (2) that the accused specifically intended to create or effect a price or price trend that does not reflect legitimate forces of supply and demand; (3) that artificial prices existed; and (4) that the accused caused the artificial prices.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ralph84 6y ago
What is an artificial price and how does it differ from a real price?
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  It's a price that "does not reflect legitimate forces of supply and demand". One of the canonical examples of an artificial price is spoofing, where you set up fake sell orders to trick people into thinking a stock is crashing so you can buy it at a discount.
  - ralph84 6y ago
    So when people who want to buy and have the funds to buy are prevented from buying by their broker, would the resulting price be one that "does not reflect legitimate forces of supply and demand"?
    - SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
      In general, no, brokers being unwilling or unable to help facilitate a trade is a legitimate market factor. There's no fundamental right to have people trade with you. It's would of course be a different story if the broker's unwillingness came from their participation in a price manipulation scheme. I don't think that's really plausible here, although I suppose I wouldn't rule it out given the crazy dumb things Robinhood has done in the past.