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> Excess mortality shows us ~100,000 extra people died in the UK since COVID started. It still doesn't negate the argument that it only affects the vulnerable.

> Excess mortality shows us ~100,000 extra people died in the UK since COVID started. It still doesn't negate the argument that it only affects the vulnerable. And those in the hospital beds: what were their conditions while in there? What were their underlying health issues (if any)? Did they recover? I'm not saying people don't get sick, I'm saying the cure is worse than the disease especially when the ones dying are a tiny fraction of the population. Edit: I live in Scotland - we have had the "sick man of Europe" title for a long time and we have an obesity crisis here [0] [0] - https://www.obesityactionscotland.org/media/1026/obesityfactsweb.pdf https://www.obesityactionscotland.org/media/1026/obesityfact...

thebruce87m 6y ago
In a “do nothing” scenario we would probably expect hundreds of thousands more vulnerable people dying before their time in the UK, along with who-knows how many 45-64 year olds (and other age groups) due to overwhelmed hospitals. We’ve seen that overwhelmed hospitals can’t do normal things like cancer treatment either, so tally that up too. This is worth some inconvenience and higher taxes to me. I guess some people have no vulnerable relatives and no co-morbidities, or maybe value things like going to the pub above their gran. Personally I would rather have my 80 year old dad and 76 year old mum around for another few years than spend a week in Tenerife this year.
- _Understated_ 6y ago
  I didn't advocate for "do nothing". Not at all. I live in the UK and we have the NHS so their job is to look after people when they get sick (and, to a certain extent, use preventative measure like education where appropriate). But the UK governments largest spend is the NHS. We pay a fortune every year for it. So if they can't do their job then heads should roll among politicians and NHS brass. My argument is that the death rate does not justify the measures that are being taken: by all means protect the vulnerable (my parents are in that class) but the rest of us have been locked down when the stats absolutely do not justify it. I haven't even mentioned the economic cataclysm we are facing... that's another story!
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    It isn’t possible to protect the vulnerable while having rampant covid in the young and healthy, society doesn’t work like that. Here in New Zealand we isolate new arrivals in hotels and they are strictly monitored. There are only a few thousand people there at any given time, and despite the huge effort, covid still escapes into the community every so often.
    - _Understated_ 6y ago
      > It isn’t possible to protect the vulnerable while having rampant covid in the young and healthy, society doesn’t work like that. Then why do the numbers keep going up despite locking down everyone? Why didn't governments institute a policy that keeps people away from those in vulnerable groups with a £1000 fine for breaches? Mandated masks etc. That would have been just as manageable. Lockdowns do not work, the figures clearly show that yet people still mandate for more lockdowns? I don't get it. > and despite the huge effort, covid still escapes into the community every so often. yes, but who is dying from it? It's the old and vulnerable, not the young and non-vulnerable: the vast majority of people will not die from this! The cure is worse than the disease.
      - lostlogin 6y ago
        > Lockdowns do not work, the figures clearly show that yet people still mandate for more lockdowns? What figures show that lockdown doesn’t work? I’m in New Zealand. We had community covid multiple times and have eradicated it (with lockdowns initially). Keep in mind that our initial lockdown was very strict, particularly compared to UK style lockdowns. In the UK the cases are falling fast, why do you say otherwise? There are less new cases each day. No one is dying from covid here and hasn’t for a long time, touch wood, hopefully that continues. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
      - mewse 6y ago
        > Lockdowns do not work Hi, Victoria, Australia here. Today, our state is at 24 days of zero community transmission of covid, managed largely via a small lockdown after a small outbreak from interstate. Before that small outbreak, we were up to 80-ish days of zero community transmission of covid, after a much much larger outbreak which was brought under control by a robust lockdown which began in March and continued into December. Lockdowns work, if people obey them. And we’re proof of that.

thebruce87m 6y ago

In a “do nothing” scenario we would probably expect hundreds of thousands more vulnerable people dying before their time in the UK, along with who-knows how many 45-64 year olds (and other age groups) due to overwhelmed hospitals. We’ve seen that overwhelmed hospitals can’t do normal things like cancer treatment either, so tally that up too. This is worth some inconvenience and higher taxes to me. I guess some people have no vulnerable relatives and no co-morbidities, or maybe value things like going to the pub above their gran. Personally I would rather have my 80 year old dad and 76 year old mum around for another few years than spend a week in Tenerife this year.

_Understated_ 6y ago
I didn't advocate for "do nothing". Not at all. I live in the UK and we have the NHS so their job is to look after people when they get sick (and, to a certain extent, use preventative measure like education where appropriate). But the UK governments largest spend is the NHS. We pay a fortune every year for it. So if they can't do their job then heads should roll among politicians and NHS brass. My argument is that the death rate does not justify the measures that are being taken: by all means protect the vulnerable (my parents are in that class) but the rest of us have been locked down when the stats absolutely do not justify it. I haven't even mentioned the economic cataclysm we are facing... that's another story!
- lostlogin 6y ago
  It isn’t possible to protect the vulnerable while having rampant covid in the young and healthy, society doesn’t work like that. Here in New Zealand we isolate new arrivals in hotels and they are strictly monitored. There are only a few thousand people there at any given time, and despite the huge effort, covid still escapes into the community every so often.
  - _Understated_ 6y ago
    > It isn’t possible to protect the vulnerable while having rampant covid in the young and healthy, society doesn’t work like that. Then why do the numbers keep going up despite locking down everyone? Why didn't governments institute a policy that keeps people away from those in vulnerable groups with a £1000 fine for breaches? Mandated masks etc. That would have been just as manageable. Lockdowns do not work, the figures clearly show that yet people still mandate for more lockdowns? I don't get it. > and despite the huge effort, covid still escapes into the community every so often. yes, but who is dying from it? It's the old and vulnerable, not the young and non-vulnerable: the vast majority of people will not die from this! The cure is worse than the disease.
    - lostlogin 6y ago
      > Lockdowns do not work, the figures clearly show that yet people still mandate for more lockdowns? What figures show that lockdown doesn’t work? I’m in New Zealand. We had community covid multiple times and have eradicated it (with lockdowns initially). Keep in mind that our initial lockdown was very strict, particularly compared to UK style lockdowns. In the UK the cases are falling fast, why do you say otherwise? There are less new cases each day. No one is dying from covid here and hasn’t for a long time, touch wood, hopefully that continues. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
    - mewse 6y ago
      > Lockdowns do not work Hi, Victoria, Australia here. Today, our state is at 24 days of zero community transmission of covid, managed largely via a small lockdown after a small outbreak from interstate. Before that small outbreak, we were up to 80-ish days of zero community transmission of covid, after a much much larger outbreak which was brought under control by a robust lockdown which began in March and continued into December. Lockdowns work, if people obey them. And we’re proof of that.