5 ms·

A year ago I left a negative review for a dentist on Google Maps, then they contacted Google, said that such reviews are illegal in Germany (because a negative

A year ago I left a negative review for a dentist on Google Maps, then they contacted Google, said that such reviews are illegal in Germany (because a negative review can negatively impact their visitor numbers) and Google just removed my review... So Google reviews are absolutely useless.

b3kart 6y ago
So unless you know the proportion of good reviews to no. of visits there’s no way for you to compare places? Odd.
actuator 6y ago
> said that such reviews are illegal in Germany (because a negative review can negatively impact their visitor numbers) and Google just removed my review This seems weird. Are they actually illegal? If yes, then shouldn't reviews be disabled in Germany.
- corty 6y ago
  They are only legal if the reviewer attaches proof of all claims made in the review and the interest of the reviewer of publishing the negative review outweighs the interest of the reviewee of not having it published. Which is the courts way of saying "it is illegal when we see it, we just leave some nominal loophole noone can fulfil so we don't go against the letter of the law". All of this is just a lot of court cases influenced by some elaborate schemes to pick the right court (LG Hamburg preferably). But unfortunately those stand as long there isn't an explicit law changing the situation. Which won't happen, because the exact same laws and especially judgements defend corrupt politicians against journalists. Also, any kind of free-speech movement is a no-go in Germany because "buhuh, but then the NeoNazis can say what they like!".
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
This is not new in Germany/DACH area due to super weird and archaic privacy, anti-hate and anti-libel laws that could be interpreted in ways which open them to abuse and turned into censorship by malicious actors with enough resources/connections. Basically in Germany/DACH free speech is heavily policed (ironically to stop NeoNazis voicing themselves) as to ensure it doesn't offend anyone so you end up with everyone only allowed to say either good or meh things in public/online. Best example is the Austrian politician who had forced Facebook through a court order to have posts on her wall where people called her a corrupt traitor, deleted worldwide, under the argument that unless you can show proof of corruption, you calling them corrupt is libel according to the Austrian law, lol. Even on platforms like Kununu (basically the Glasdoor of DACH) where employees can review their employers, if companies don't like the negative review employees leave, they can ask to have them removed citing similar laws, which makes the platform pretty much useless in the end as all reviews are either good or meh. Honestly, Americans don't know how good they have it in the free speech category. Imagine not being able to call Trump corrupt on Twitter or say that Swaggy Bro Tech is an abusive sweatshop on Glassdoor/Google.
- ttt0 6y ago
  > Honestly, Americans don't know how good they have it in the free speech category. Not for much longer. Everyone supports censoring someone, so it's just a matter of time before it becomes a policy.
- creaturemachine 6y ago
  What you've described is basically the definition of Libel.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    When you're a political leader and you're paid by taxpayers to manage their livelihoods and decide their future you should put up with harsh criticism as part of your job be it proven or not, within reason. But as it currently stands, the 1% use the anti-libel laws in their favor to censor anything that undermines their power/credibility. For example, if you're a senator and while I don't have proof that you are corrupt, you can't possible tell me with a straight face that you awarding a lucrative public contract to the company where your daughter is on the board of directors, is a pure coincidence or a meritocracy, even if the paper trail says it's all squeaky clean.
    - alea_iacta_est 6y ago
      Wait a minute, do you think that could ever happen? That'd be shocking!
- chewzerita 6y ago
  I heard a joke somewhere that the internet is just people libeling each other all day. I personally think that we should be intolerant of intolerance, until of course that message is co-opted by "elites" (billionaires, politicians or whoever you believe is the group(s) pulling the strings) to suppress any criticism of their power.
- hyperdimension 6y ago
  I know it's more-or-less your point, but I am absolutely tickled by the idea of 'free speech' being 'heavily policed.' There's some doublethink if there ever was some! (Am I allowed to say that?)

b3kart 6y ago

So unless you know the proportion of good reviews to no. of visits there’s no way for you to compare places? Odd.

actuator 6y ago

> said that such reviews are illegal in Germany (because a negative review can negatively impact their visitor numbers) and Google just removed my review This seems weird. Are they actually illegal? If yes, then shouldn't reviews be disabled in Germany.

corty 6y ago
They are only legal if the reviewer attaches proof of all claims made in the review and the interest of the reviewer of publishing the negative review outweighs the interest of the reviewee of not having it published. Which is the courts way of saying "it is illegal when we see it, we just leave some nominal loophole noone can fulfil so we don't go against the letter of the law". All of this is just a lot of court cases influenced by some elaborate schemes to pick the right court (LG Hamburg preferably). But unfortunately those stand as long there isn't an explicit law changing the situation. Which won't happen, because the exact same laws and especially judgements defend corrupt politicians against journalists. Also, any kind of free-speech movement is a no-go in Germany because "buhuh, but then the NeoNazis can say what they like!".

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

This is not new in Germany/DACH area due to super weird and archaic privacy, anti-hate and anti-libel laws that could be interpreted in ways which open them to abuse and turned into censorship by malicious actors with enough resources/connections. Basically in Germany/DACH free speech is heavily policed (ironically to stop NeoNazis voicing themselves) as to ensure it doesn't offend anyone so you end up with everyone only allowed to say either good or meh things in public/online. Best example is the Austrian politician who had forced Facebook through a court order to have posts on her wall where people called her a corrupt traitor, deleted worldwide, under the argument that unless you can show proof of corruption, you calling them corrupt is libel according to the Austrian law, lol. Even on platforms like Kununu (basically the Glasdoor of DACH) where employees can review their employers, if companies don't like the negative review employees leave, they can ask to have them removed citing similar laws, which makes the platform pretty much useless in the end as all reviews are either good or meh. Honestly, Americans don't know how good they have it in the free speech category. Imagine not being able to call Trump corrupt on Twitter or say that Swaggy Bro Tech is an abusive sweatshop on Glassdoor/Google.

ttt0 6y ago
> Honestly, Americans don't know how good they have it in the free speech category. Not for much longer. Everyone supports censoring someone, so it's just a matter of time before it becomes a policy.
creaturemachine 6y ago
What you've described is basically the definition of Libel.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  When you're a political leader and you're paid by taxpayers to manage their livelihoods and decide their future you should put up with harsh criticism as part of your job be it proven or not, within reason. But as it currently stands, the 1% use the anti-libel laws in their favor to censor anything that undermines their power/credibility. For example, if you're a senator and while I don't have proof that you are corrupt, you can't possible tell me with a straight face that you awarding a lucrative public contract to the company where your daughter is on the board of directors, is a pure coincidence or a meritocracy, even if the paper trail says it's all squeaky clean.
  - alea_iacta_est 6y ago
    Wait a minute, do you think that could ever happen? That'd be shocking!
chewzerita 6y ago
I heard a joke somewhere that the internet is just people libeling each other all day. I personally think that we should be intolerant of intolerance, until of course that message is co-opted by "elites" (billionaires, politicians or whoever you believe is the group(s) pulling the strings) to suppress any criticism of their power.
hyperdimension 6y ago
I know it's more-or-less your point, but I am absolutely tickled by the idea of 'free speech' being 'heavily policed.' There's some doublethink if there ever was some! (Am I allowed to say that?)