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>rejecting the fundamentals I think what is missing in many people's analysis is that there is a new fundamental value in this situation. Buying GME shares is

by lovich 6y ago

>rejecting the fundamentals I think what is missing in many people's analysis is that there is a new fundamental value in this situation. Buying GME shares is now linked to destroying a hedge fund and ruining some billionaire's days. For many people, and I include myself in this group, that has a real tangible value that outweighs the actual dollar amount it costs to buy a few GME shares. When the leaders of these brokerages and hedge funds ponder as to why people are throwing money at something that is likely to crash and burn when it will likely not make money and is just hurting the billionaires, they are staring the answer in the face

WJW 6y ago
While some billionaires are having a terrible week, market makers and prop trading desks have been making an absolute fortune. I'm sure the billionaires owning the market makers are more than happy to sell "financial uprising points" to WSB readers if they so desperately wish to purchase them. It's a mistake to see "the billionaires" or "Wall Street" as a single homogenous group. 99% of them don't mind Melvin capital going under at all.
- HexDecOctBin 6y ago
  In the modern world, most people live in a state of learned helplessness, because they have been told that the societal systems around them are very complex and they don't have a hope of comprehending them. An event like this, while not being a be-all-and-end-all, can give commoners a taste of blood -- that maybe they are just as smart as those elites, that maybe they can use the systems for their own benefit too, that maybe they don't HAVE to live under the boot. It's the hope that matters, because there are always more opportunities.
- leprechaun1066 6y ago
  99% of them are doing more than just not minding Melvin's issues, they're actively feeding off Melvin. Melvin is going to be (or is already) selling off what they have in stuff like FB, MSFT, AAPL, etc, and it's not the retail traders who are benefiting from this, it's the other parts of the investment banking system. Even the sales traders are going to be on the phone with Melvin going "Sell 200k AAPL? No bother."
xadhominemx 6y ago
Buying GME is in fact not linked to destroying a hedge fund as the funds with large concentrated short positions exited the investment several days ago. The situation now is a bonanza for billionaires, as many have gone long the stock or are providing highly lucrative retail options market making services. The entire narrative about gme now being some sort of populist uprising is a sham perpetuated by those who want to bring fresh bag holders into the name.
- dualthro 6y ago
  How come I continue to see posts talking about the short float for GME being in excess of 100%? disclosure: I have no investment in GME, but am hoping to see some hedge funds suffer
  - xadhominemx 6y ago
    It probably is over 100%. That’s unusually high but 100% short interest is not some sort of special number. Shorting works by borrowing a share and selling it to someone else. There’s no reason the same share could not be borrowed multiple times, as the shares are all fungible.
    - midasuni 6y ago
      So if two people owned one share, they could simply pass it between each other until their shorts are covered?
      - ScoutOrgo 6y ago
        Not passed, but bought since the underlying price will have changed.
      - treis 6y ago
        Not exactly, but yes. A single share can theoretically unwind all of these short positions. If we have A lends to B who sells to C who lends to D who sells to E who lends to F who sells to G. The reverse of the process will unwind it: G sells to F who returns to E who sells to D who returns to C who sells to B who returns to A
batmenace 6y ago
Destroying a hedge fund is also not a 'fundamental value', no matter how satisfying it might sound. Also, as I've said before, often the largest investors in hedge funds are pension funds or similar pooled vehicles, so screwing an investment fund like this doesn't always just stick it to the rich guys...
- tylermauthe 6y ago
  Of course the rich guys will use human shields to protect themselves as you are indicating. They will demonize this action as the work of jokers who just want to see the world burn. If your pension fund was relying on short selling, you had a terrible pension fund! The only place where blame should lie for any outcomes of this is squarely in the lap of luxury. Any average investors who were burned by this should be pointing their fingers at the hands that promised to feed them and have repeatedly failed to do so.
- chii 6y ago
  You can redefine it, or give it a different name other than "fundamental value", but the point is that these buyers from wsb may be paying to play the game, not for financial profit, but for the lolz. Like house-odds gambling (which, has negative "fundamental value"), people still do it. Now, as for whether there are enough of these crazy types to actually push the price of GME up this much - i'm skeptical. I suspect that it's a battle between different hedge funds who first caught on to this small group of crazies on wsb, and saw an opportunity.
- rtx 6y ago
  To further your point, things like these trigger a domino effect that ultimately hurt ones at the bottom.
  - mavelikara 6y ago
    Trouble is, the ones at the bottom already feel that they are hurt so much and won't mind a new round of hurt. That probably is not a verifiable truth, but the fact that this impression prevails for enough people to do this is probably where the real corrective actions should be directed at.
simonh 6y ago
So what you're saying is you and thousands like you don't mind risking losing money because you think it's worth it to stick it to the man. Who do you think is making money off all the trades you're losing on? Doh! Some billionaires will lose money - actually they already did a few days ago when they exited. Some others will make a few millions or billions. Robinhood looks like they've got some explaining to do. Just another day on Wall Street.
- lovich 6y ago
  That might be a compelling argument if they weren’t making money off of us in the first place. When the choice is status quo vs actually hurting some of them even if the rest get the status quote, it’s an easy choice. >Just another day on Wall Street If this was true then none of the current events this thread is discussing would be occurring. You don’t need to destroy all of your enemies, you just need to prove you’re a credible threat to make the rest be wary
  - simonh 6y ago
    I don't understand what harm you think Wall Street is doing to you. In fact if you have a pension plan, you're profiting off the system too. As is your employer if you work for a listed company. Oh well, I suppose it takes all sorts.

by lovich 6y ago

WJW 6y ago

While some billionaires are having a terrible week, market makers and prop trading desks have been making an absolute fortune. I'm sure the billionaires owning the market makers are more than happy to sell "financial uprising points" to WSB readers if they so desperately wish to purchase them. It's a mistake to see "the billionaires" or "Wall Street" as a single homogenous group. 99% of them don't mind Melvin capital going under at all.

HexDecOctBin 6y ago
In the modern world, most people live in a state of learned helplessness, because they have been told that the societal systems around them are very complex and they don't have a hope of comprehending them. An event like this, while not being a be-all-and-end-all, can give commoners a taste of blood -- that maybe they are just as smart as those elites, that maybe they can use the systems for their own benefit too, that maybe they don't HAVE to live under the boot. It's the hope that matters, because there are always more opportunities.
leprechaun1066 6y ago
99% of them are doing more than just not minding Melvin's issues, they're actively feeding off Melvin. Melvin is going to be (or is already) selling off what they have in stuff like FB, MSFT, AAPL, etc, and it's not the retail traders who are benefiting from this, it's the other parts of the investment banking system. Even the sales traders are going to be on the phone with Melvin going "Sell 200k AAPL? No bother."

xadhominemx 6y ago

Buying GME is in fact not linked to destroying a hedge fund as the funds with large concentrated short positions exited the investment several days ago. The situation now is a bonanza for billionaires, as many have gone long the stock or are providing highly lucrative retail options market making services. The entire narrative about gme now being some sort of populist uprising is a sham perpetuated by those who want to bring fresh bag holders into the name.

dualthro 6y ago
How come I continue to see posts talking about the short float for GME being in excess of 100%? disclosure: I have no investment in GME, but am hoping to see some hedge funds suffer
- xadhominemx 6y ago
  It probably is over 100%. That’s unusually high but 100% short interest is not some sort of special number. Shorting works by borrowing a share and selling it to someone else. There’s no reason the same share could not be borrowed multiple times, as the shares are all fungible.
  - midasuni 6y ago
    So if two people owned one share, they could simply pass it between each other until their shorts are covered?
    - ScoutOrgo 6y ago
      Not passed, but bought since the underlying price will have changed.
    - treis 6y ago
      Not exactly, but yes. A single share can theoretically unwind all of these short positions. If we have A lends to B who sells to C who lends to D who sells to E who lends to F who sells to G. The reverse of the process will unwind it: G sells to F who returns to E who sells to D who returns to C who sells to B who returns to A

batmenace 6y ago

Destroying a hedge fund is also not a 'fundamental value', no matter how satisfying it might sound. Also, as I've said before, often the largest investors in hedge funds are pension funds or similar pooled vehicles, so screwing an investment fund like this doesn't always just stick it to the rich guys...

tylermauthe 6y ago
Of course the rich guys will use human shields to protect themselves as you are indicating. They will demonize this action as the work of jokers who just want to see the world burn. If your pension fund was relying on short selling, you had a terrible pension fund! The only place where blame should lie for any outcomes of this is squarely in the lap of luxury. Any average investors who were burned by this should be pointing their fingers at the hands that promised to feed them and have repeatedly failed to do so.
chii 6y ago
You can redefine it, or give it a different name other than "fundamental value", but the point is that these buyers from wsb may be paying to play the game, not for financial profit, but for the lolz. Like house-odds gambling (which, has negative "fundamental value"), people still do it. Now, as for whether there are enough of these crazy types to actually push the price of GME up this much - i'm skeptical. I suspect that it's a battle between different hedge funds who first caught on to this small group of crazies on wsb, and saw an opportunity.
rtx 6y ago
To further your point, things like these trigger a domino effect that ultimately hurt ones at the bottom.
- mavelikara 6y ago
  Trouble is, the ones at the bottom already feel that they are hurt so much and won't mind a new round of hurt. That probably is not a verifiable truth, but the fact that this impression prevails for enough people to do this is probably where the real corrective actions should be directed at.

simonh 6y ago

So what you're saying is you and thousands like you don't mind risking losing money because you think it's worth it to stick it to the man. Who do you think is making money off all the trades you're losing on? Doh! Some billionaires will lose money - actually they already did a few days ago when they exited. Some others will make a few millions or billions. Robinhood looks like they've got some explaining to do. Just another day on Wall Street.

lovich 6y ago
That might be a compelling argument if they weren’t making money off of us in the first place. When the choice is status quo vs actually hurting some of them even if the rest get the status quote, it’s an easy choice. >Just another day on Wall Street If this was true then none of the current events this thread is discussing would be occurring. You don’t need to destroy all of your enemies, you just need to prove you’re a credible threat to make the rest be wary
- simonh 6y ago
  I don't understand what harm you think Wall Street is doing to you. In fact if you have a pension plan, you're profiting off the system too. As is your employer if you work for a listed company. Oh well, I suppose it takes all sorts.