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When I want to really convey my point in a discussion, I call it "manipulative pattern". People feel more implicated when you point them their behviour or actio

When I want to really convey my point in a discussion, I call it "manipulative pattern". People feel more implicated when you point them their behviour or actions have been manipulated actively.

amelius 6y ago
We need an objective way to tell which things are manipulative. And to whom. Also, ads are manipulative too (for many people), but do they belong to the same category?
- pferde 6y ago
  The "manipulative" here refers to the UI actively or passively lying to you, and slightly nudging you towards doing something you do not want. Ads, or the way ads are presented can be manipulative too - e.g. articles which pose as informative, but in fact are written just to push a certain product. But if the ads are presented overtly, they are not manipulative in the sense that is discussed here.
- intended 6y ago
  Anti user design? Pro business design?
  - oblio 6y ago
    It needs to be negative. The same way I'd never call my opponents "pro-life supporters", I'd call them "anti-abortionists". You need to control the narrative.
  - kiawe_fire 6y ago
    I would favor “anti-user”, “user-exploitative”, or just “deceptive”. There’s nothing inherently wrong with something that’s “pro-business”, and in fact I see “user-centric” or “user-driven” as being good business. “Pro-business” is bad when it comes at the cost of the user/customer/employee/etc.
SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
I prefer "deceptive pattern". They try to trick you into thinking some option doesn't exist, that some default is the only way to do things, that you'll benefit from some harmful thing, etc.
sizzle 6y ago
"Human exploitative pattern" or "human manipulative pattern" makes me instantly pay attention and on edge. They are proactively exploiting/manipulating our brain's cognitive processing/award system/neural addiction pathways on a subconscious level and massive scale, which needs to be identified and categorized for all to see... cause we didn't evolve any cognitive firewalls to stop bad actors from intentionally nudging us to make bad choices that they profit from while pulling our levers that they gathered from data signals to dial up the deception and trickery to a science that predicts our probable actions to a degree of accuracy that is terrifyingly accurate. This is just like the marketing and advertising industries playing emotional music and showing humans doing things that pull on our "heart strings" to get us to buy their crap they are peddling. We need protections from tech company dark patterns and cognitive processing manipulation/trickery. Thoughts?

When I want to really convey my point in a discussion, I call it "manipulative pattern". People feel more implicated when you point them their behviour or actions have been manipulated actively.

amelius 6y ago

We need an objective way to tell which things are manipulative. And to whom. Also, ads are manipulative too (for many people), but do they belong to the same category?

pferde 6y ago
The "manipulative" here refers to the UI actively or passively lying to you, and slightly nudging you towards doing something you do not want. Ads, or the way ads are presented can be manipulative too - e.g. articles which pose as informative, but in fact are written just to push a certain product. But if the ads are presented overtly, they are not manipulative in the sense that is discussed here.
intended 6y ago
Anti user design? Pro business design?
- oblio 6y ago
  It needs to be negative. The same way I'd never call my opponents "pro-life supporters", I'd call them "anti-abortionists". You need to control the narrative.
- kiawe_fire 6y ago
  I would favor “anti-user”, “user-exploitative”, or just “deceptive”. There’s nothing inherently wrong with something that’s “pro-business”, and in fact I see “user-centric” or “user-driven” as being good business. “Pro-business” is bad when it comes at the cost of the user/customer/employee/etc.

SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago

I prefer "deceptive pattern". They try to trick you into thinking some option doesn't exist, that some default is the only way to do things, that you'll benefit from some harmful thing, etc.

sizzle 6y ago

"Human exploitative pattern" or "human manipulative pattern" makes me instantly pay attention and on edge. They are proactively exploiting/manipulating our brain's cognitive processing/award system/neural addiction pathways on a subconscious level and massive scale, which needs to be identified and categorized for all to see... cause we didn't evolve any cognitive firewalls to stop bad actors from intentionally nudging us to make bad choices that they profit from while pulling our levers that they gathered from data signals to dial up the deception and trickery to a science that predicts our probable actions to a degree of accuracy that is terrifyingly accurate. This is just like the marketing and advertising industries playing emotional music and showing humans doing things that pull on our "heart strings" to get us to buy their crap they are peddling. We need protections from tech company dark patterns and cognitive processing manipulation/trickery. Thoughts?