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Should the IB execs & TD Ameritrade execs be charged too? What about APEX clearing which enforced this rule with all of their customers?

rubyist5eva 6y ago
yes
- kasey_junk 6y ago
  And should fee free trading be outlawed?
  - kahrl 6y ago
    no
  - zymhan 6y ago
    Where does one get this army of straw men?
    - kasey_junk 6y ago
      I’m trying to figure out what risk mitigation techniques and what trading pricing regimes are going to land people in prison after the fact in the Reddit future.
      - rubyist5eva 6y ago
        short selling more than 100% of the stock is an easy one
        kasey_junk 6y ago
        No one person is short selling over 100% of the stock. Its a combination of many different actors each one of them shorting a small %. What % of a company can you short without going to jail do you predict?
gnarbarian 6y ago
https://youtu.be/eiyfwZVAzGw https://youtu.be/eiyfwZVAzGw
ars 6y ago
Did TD halt trading in it? I thought they only raised margin requirements, which is reasonable. You can still buy if you have the cash.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  They did disallow at least some buys. Including buy to close.
- kasey_junk 6y ago
  They didn’t put a blanket halt in, just dramatically raised margin requirements. I’m trying to get a feel for what risk mitigation techniques are going to be prison worthy in our new Reddit fueled future.
calmworm 6y ago
I don’t believe it was enforced across the board. I have yet to see a list but TastyWorks is an APEX customer and there were no restrictions put in place that I’m aware of. Surely there will be a compiled list of offenders and they will likely include the most heavily used retail “app brokers”.
- kasey_junk 6y ago
  Can’t confirm first hand but there were definitely reports of TastyWorks halting GME https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l70ysa/tastyworks_has_halted_buying_of_gme/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l70ysa/tast...
  - calmworm 6y ago
    Thanks for the link. “Halted” doesn’t mean blocked though. Maybe bad wording by the OP on that thread. It was halted multiple times this week throughout each day. Multiple short interest stocks were many times. Looks like it was briefly blocked on TW, though.
  - misframer 6y ago
    Here’s the email I got from Tastyworks: > Apex Clearing, who acts as the custodian of all tastyworks accounts, has informed us that the following symbols (AMC, GME, & KOSS) will be set to closing only order status immediately. You will only be able to submit orders to close out any open positions that you have in these symbols. > New opening orders will not be accepted at this time. We will update our clients should the clearing firm lift the Closing Only status in the near future.
teeray 6y ago
Yes. The calculus in their heads that the SEC fines for doing this would be less than their losses from allowing trading to continue needs to die. The penalty for violating the law must always be greater than the consequences of following it.
- kasey_junk 6y ago
  What law do you suppose was broken?
  - cambalache 6y ago
    Market manipulation, you dont seem like an impartial player here
    - kasey_junk 6y ago
      Are wsb members also subject to the jailing for market manipulation? If not why not? The behavior of certain members is closer to the classic definition than anything the brokers have done. I’m not an impartial player. I’m largely disgusted by the pass the insiders at wsb have gotten for their part in a recent market condition that is going to cost retail traders tons of money before this is done. It looks exactly like the mobbed up boiler rooms we used to see in the markets just transitioned to new technology. I’ve in the past worked for hedge funds and prop trading firms but none implicated in any of this (they mostly don’t exist anymore). I have no current position in GME (I made $0.40 this week pretax trading GmE shares on Robinhood). I’ve traded on Robinhood for a few years after leaving the trading industry but more than 99% of my trades and positions are in vanguard indexes. I’ve not worked for a trading desk, hedge fund or prop trader in more than 5 years and don’t have any outstanding trades, agreements or contracts in place that I know of. What else would you like me to clear up before you impugn my reputation more?
    - justlurkin12 6y ago
      Put him in jail too.
azmenak 6y ago
As other have pointed out, this wasn’t applied as a blanket ban. I was able to trade GME options in IBKR today without any restrictions.

rubyist5eva 6y ago

yes

kasey_junk 6y ago
And should fee free trading be outlawed?
- kahrl 6y ago
  no
- zymhan 6y ago
  Where does one get this army of straw men?
  - kasey_junk 6y ago
    I’m trying to figure out what risk mitigation techniques and what trading pricing regimes are going to land people in prison after the fact in the Reddit future.
    - rubyist5eva 6y ago
      short selling more than 100% of the stock is an easy one
      - kasey_junk 6y ago
        No one person is short selling over 100% of the stock. Its a combination of many different actors each one of them shorting a small %. What % of a company can you short without going to jail do you predict?

gnarbarian 6y ago

https://youtu.be/eiyfwZVAzGw https://youtu.be/eiyfwZVAzGw

ars 6y ago

Did TD halt trading in it? I thought they only raised margin requirements, which is reasonable. You can still buy if you have the cash.

perl4ever 6y ago
They did disallow at least some buys. Including buy to close.
kasey_junk 6y ago
They didn’t put a blanket halt in, just dramatically raised margin requirements. I’m trying to get a feel for what risk mitigation techniques are going to be prison worthy in our new Reddit fueled future.

calmworm 6y ago

I don’t believe it was enforced across the board. I have yet to see a list but TastyWorks is an APEX customer and there were no restrictions put in place that I’m aware of. Surely there will be a compiled list of offenders and they will likely include the most heavily used retail “app brokers”.

kasey_junk 6y ago
Can’t confirm first hand but there were definitely reports of TastyWorks halting GME https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l70ysa/tastyworks_has_halted_buying_of_gme/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/l70ysa/tast...
- calmworm 6y ago
  Thanks for the link. “Halted” doesn’t mean blocked though. Maybe bad wording by the OP on that thread. It was halted multiple times this week throughout each day. Multiple short interest stocks were many times. Looks like it was briefly blocked on TW, though.
- misframer 6y ago
  Here’s the email I got from Tastyworks: > Apex Clearing, who acts as the custodian of all tastyworks accounts, has informed us that the following symbols (AMC, GME, & KOSS) will be set to closing only order status immediately. You will only be able to submit orders to close out any open positions that you have in these symbols. > New opening orders will not be accepted at this time. We will update our clients should the clearing firm lift the Closing Only status in the near future.

teeray 6y ago

Yes. The calculus in their heads that the SEC fines for doing this would be less than their losses from allowing trading to continue needs to die. The penalty for violating the law must always be greater than the consequences of following it.

kasey_junk 6y ago
What law do you suppose was broken?
- cambalache 6y ago
  Market manipulation, you dont seem like an impartial player here
  - kasey_junk 6y ago
    Are wsb members also subject to the jailing for market manipulation? If not why not? The behavior of certain members is closer to the classic definition than anything the brokers have done. I’m not an impartial player. I’m largely disgusted by the pass the insiders at wsb have gotten for their part in a recent market condition that is going to cost retail traders tons of money before this is done. It looks exactly like the mobbed up boiler rooms we used to see in the markets just transitioned to new technology. I’ve in the past worked for hedge funds and prop trading firms but none implicated in any of this (they mostly don’t exist anymore). I have no current position in GME (I made $0.40 this week pretax trading GmE shares on Robinhood). I’ve traded on Robinhood for a few years after leaving the trading industry but more than 99% of my trades and positions are in vanguard indexes. I’ve not worked for a trading desk, hedge fund or prop trader in more than 5 years and don’t have any outstanding trades, agreements or contracts in place that I know of. What else would you like me to clear up before you impugn my reputation more?
  - justlurkin12 6y ago
    Put him in jail too.

azmenak 6y ago

As other have pointed out, this wasn’t applied as a blanket ban. I was able to trade GME options in IBKR today without any restrictions.