11 ms·

It's not really philosophical, they just weren't happy with the Bluetooth stack they had (originally from netbsd I think) and no-one has written a new one yet.

It's not really philosophical, they just weren't happy with the Bluetooth stack they had (originally from netbsd I think) and no-one has written a new one yet. https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/b8042ed98e3e7a691133b4fd8e91f61ba15a83ba https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/b8042ed98e3e7a691133b4...

LeoPanthera 6y ago
It was removed in 2014! At this point, "not yet" surely must mean "we don't want it".
- stretchcat 6y ago
  Do-ocracy. Just because none of those devs want it enough to implement it, doesn't mean they'd turn away somebody who did. If somebody wants it bad enough, they'll do it.
  - msla 6y ago
    > Do-ocracy. I love this word. I'm apparently behind the times, though: It's on Urban Dictionary and I love their example https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=do-ocracy https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=do-ocracy > “Jeez, why does Mary get to decide what everyone eats and when they work? Who put her in charge?” Older and wiser heads will say, “This is a do-ocracy. If you think you can do Mary’s job, and you want to, then get up there and do it. She’ll probably be relieved. If not, don’t be a jerk and make a big stink about it, or else she’ll stop working so hard and we won’t have anything to eat!” ... which is apparently taken from: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy ... which is another wiki I'll have to dive into.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Why not 'nobody contributed it so far'?
- blhack 6y ago
  Write it. As an openbsd user, I will say that bluetooth is pretty far down the list of things I care about.
  - Koshkin 6y ago
    > Write it. This is getting really old. Not all users are programmers.
    - echlebek 6y ago
      People aren't just going to write things they don't have an interest in.
    - ac29 6y ago
      You could also pay someone else to write it for you. OpenBSD is a free, community based project - you cant really complain it doesnt do what you want if you arent willing to invest any time or money.
      - Koshkin 6y ago
        Makes sense. “You get what you pay for.” “Don’t look the gift horse in the mouth.” “Take it or leave it.” Sure. But the old trope still feels wrong somehow.
        blacklight 6y ago
        Not really - in the case of Linux you pay the same price as OpenBSD but you get much more. That's because enough people decided to put enough effort to support as many use cases as possible, until the OS got enough momentum to be hard to ignore. The BSD approach has instead always been "you want it? then code it yourself and open a merge request". That sounds legitimate, but that's the real reason why OpenBSD has never taken off outside of its small niche of geeks - despite being an amazingly designed OS under the hood. And I know many of those geeks who are quite proud of being part of a tiny niche that scuffs at Bluetooth, USB 3.0, QHD displays or anything that a "normal user" might want - had it been for them a 640x480 screen with a working session of xterm would have largely sufficed. But that's also the reason why there aren't many "normal people" using their OS. At some point one should also ponder why we support and contribute to open-source projects (especially considering that we mostly do it in our spare time, that, in the case of developers, is often limited and precious). Is it because we want to make the (IT) world a better place with more free and cool products and attract more people, or is it because we like our own well-curated niche and we don't want to let anybody in?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- toast0 6y ago
  There's not a lot of applications where bluetooth is essential. Personally, after several rounds of disappointment with bluetooth mice, the only thing I use bluetooth for is handsfree calling and sometimes music in cars. Even that sometimes doesn't work (my spouse's Nokia 7.2 couldn't connect to her car between July and December, because something in the Nokia firmware was broken; worked fine with my car though). So, my guess is nobody who works on OpenBSD a lot cares about bluetooth on OpenBSD, because they're not using bluetooth much, and don't see any use cases for it that would help them.
haecceity 6y ago
What's wrong with bluetoothd?
- jamiesonbecker 6y ago
  What's wrong with bluetooth in general? Essentially, it's an under-specified security nightmare. Of course, it's also pretty important for certain classes of devices.
  - throwawayboise 6y ago
    I've never had a bluetooth device that actually worked reliably. Granted, my experience is limited to mostly keyboards and mice. If the bluetooth isn't giving me issues, the battery is. No thanks. I'll stick with USB and wired devices.
    - stretchcat 6y ago
      My Bluetooth headphones have been pretty bulletproof since I started using them a few years ago. Battery life still lasts two or three weeks ay my usage levels too. But I only keep them paired to one device, and I understand most of the grief with these sorts of things comes with switching between hosts often.
      - knorker 6y ago
        Oh, wow. I have NEVER heard of anyone where bluetooth has "just worked". Well, that's not true. People in the Apple bubble say that Apple devices work with Apple headphones. But that is it.
      - gnud 6y ago
        My bluetooth headphones work well if I'm sitting still. They don't work if I'm walking. So I would say that bluetooth headphones don't work.
ThinkBeat 6y ago
I think it is better to leave it out until there is a solid implementation of it. Saves everyone a lot of frustration.

LeoPanthera 6y ago

It was removed in 2014! At this point, "not yet" surely must mean "we don't want it".

stretchcat 6y ago
Do-ocracy. Just because none of those devs want it enough to implement it, doesn't mean they'd turn away somebody who did. If somebody wants it bad enough, they'll do it.
- msla 6y ago
  > Do-ocracy. I love this word. I'm apparently behind the times, though: It's on Urban Dictionary and I love their example https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=do-ocracy https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=do-ocracy > “Jeez, why does Mary get to decide what everyone eats and when they work? Who put her in charge?” Older and wiser heads will say, “This is a do-ocracy. If you think you can do Mary’s job, and you want to, then get up there and do it. She’ll probably be relieved. If not, don’t be a jerk and make a big stink about it, or else she’ll stop working so hard and we won’t have anything to eat!” ... which is apparently taken from: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy https://communitywiki.org/wiki/DoOcracy ... which is another wiki I'll have to dive into.
emteycz 6y ago
Why not 'nobody contributed it so far'?
blhack 6y ago
Write it. As an openbsd user, I will say that bluetooth is pretty far down the list of things I care about.
- Koshkin 6y ago
  > Write it. This is getting really old. Not all users are programmers.
  - echlebek 6y ago
    People aren't just going to write things they don't have an interest in.
  - ac29 6y ago
    You could also pay someone else to write it for you. OpenBSD is a free, community based project - you cant really complain it doesnt do what you want if you arent willing to invest any time or money.
    - Koshkin 6y ago
      Makes sense. “You get what you pay for.” “Don’t look the gift horse in the mouth.” “Take it or leave it.” Sure. But the old trope still feels wrong somehow.
      - blacklight 6y ago
        Not really - in the case of Linux you pay the same price as OpenBSD but you get much more. That's because enough people decided to put enough effort to support as many use cases as possible, until the OS got enough momentum to be hard to ignore. The BSD approach has instead always been "you want it? then code it yourself and open a merge request". That sounds legitimate, but that's the real reason why OpenBSD has never taken off outside of its small niche of geeks - despite being an amazingly designed OS under the hood. And I know many of those geeks who are quite proud of being part of a tiny niche that scuffs at Bluetooth, USB 3.0, QHD displays or anything that a "normal user" might want - had it been for them a 640x480 screen with a working session of xterm would have largely sufficed. But that's also the reason why there aren't many "normal people" using their OS. At some point one should also ponder why we support and contribute to open-source projects (especially considering that we mostly do it in our spare time, that, in the case of developers, is often limited and precious). Is it because we want to make the (IT) world a better place with more free and cool products and attract more people, or is it because we like our own well-curated niche and we don't want to let anybody in?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
toast0 6y ago
There's not a lot of applications where bluetooth is essential. Personally, after several rounds of disappointment with bluetooth mice, the only thing I use bluetooth for is handsfree calling and sometimes music in cars. Even that sometimes doesn't work (my spouse's Nokia 7.2 couldn't connect to her car between July and December, because something in the Nokia firmware was broken; worked fine with my car though). So, my guess is nobody who works on OpenBSD a lot cares about bluetooth on OpenBSD, because they're not using bluetooth much, and don't see any use cases for it that would help them.

haecceity 6y ago

What's wrong with bluetoothd?

jamiesonbecker 6y ago
What's wrong with bluetooth in general? Essentially, it's an under-specified security nightmare. Of course, it's also pretty important for certain classes of devices.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  I've never had a bluetooth device that actually worked reliably. Granted, my experience is limited to mostly keyboards and mice. If the bluetooth isn't giving me issues, the battery is. No thanks. I'll stick with USB and wired devices.
  - stretchcat 6y ago
    My Bluetooth headphones have been pretty bulletproof since I started using them a few years ago. Battery life still lasts two or three weeks ay my usage levels too. But I only keep them paired to one device, and I understand most of the grief with these sorts of things comes with switching between hosts often.
    - knorker 6y ago
      Oh, wow. I have NEVER heard of anyone where bluetooth has "just worked". Well, that's not true. People in the Apple bubble say that Apple devices work with Apple headphones. But that is it.
    - gnud 6y ago
      My bluetooth headphones work well if I'm sitting still. They don't work if I'm walking. So I would say that bluetooth headphones don't work.

ThinkBeat 6y ago

I think it is better to leave it out until there is a solid implementation of it. Saves everyone a lot of frustration.