11 ms·

Adam Curtis Explains It All

132 points by clydethefrog 6y ago

neonate 6y ago
https://archive.is/CbDDL https://archive.is/CbDDL
js2 6y ago
This article is a review of a six-part series by filmmaker Adam Curtis that will air on BBC starting Feb 11th. Synopsis: > This new series of films tells the story of how we got to the strange days we are now experiencing. And why both those in power - and we - find it so difficult to move on. > The films trace different forces across the world that have led to now, not just in the West, but in China and Russia as well. It covers a wide range - including the strange roots of modern conspiracy theories, the history of China, opium and opiods, the history of Artificial Intelligence, melancholy over the loss of empire and, love and power. And explores whether modern culture, despite its radicalism, is really just part of the new system of power. https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021/cgyoomh https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021/cgyoomh
bmitc 6y ago
I really enjoy Adam Curtis’ documentaries. He hits the nail on the head and is great viewing for anyone that likes systems level thinking. I’m looking forward to his new film and have seen most of his prior films. One curious thing is that after watching his documentaries, I do find myself a bit confused about what it all means. His theories weave sometimes complex narratives, and it’s a lot to take in. I think the hardest thing to reconcile is the intent of the people behind or at least catalyze the phenomena that arise. Is the world essentially driven by emergent incompetence and narcissism or is there something more sinister and intentional about it all?
- rapsey 6y ago
  One thing you should keep in mind is never to trust a narrative explanation of events and history. Human brains are hard wired to believe and think in narratives. Reality however is not some grand story arc.
  - everybodyknows 6y ago
    For a good read on selecting evidence to fit the desired narrative, try Richard Feynman’s critique of the Challenger investigation. In one of his as-told-to autobiographies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01921-7 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01...
    - olivermarks 6y ago
      Your ISBN link didn't arrive at Feynman's book, here it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_People_Think%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_Pe... Separately I loathe the lazy term 'conspiracy theory', which essentially means a suspicion that a secretive group of people have/are trying to conspire to take advantage. The term is endlessly used as a vague, dismissive pejorative of everything from investigative journalism the speaker/writer doesn't like to close down any sort of open ended questioning conversation. It's even abbreviated to 'conspiracy' which makes little sense.
      - Krasnol 6y ago
        I like the term "conspiracy myth". It spreads in Germany now and I find it's quite useful.
        olivermarks 6y ago
        Why is that useful? The challenge with overuse of the term 'conspiracy' is that like the suddenly common term 'baseless' it all too often ignores conjecture based on facts and events that arouse suspicions. One man's hilariously mad tin foil hat conspiracy theorist is another man's investigative journalist...and imo opinion we can't have enough of those...
        AndrewBissell 6y ago
        A really funny thing recently was various media dismissing "baseless conspiracy theories" about "the Great Reset," when there is clearly a very public and well documented foundation of various public officials using the term in the broader context of pushing certain agendas. One can still argue whether each of the various theories spun out of this is true or not, but it's silly to call them "baseless."
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  Some threads to follow if you are interested in pursuing the "intentional" angle: - Michael Aquino and PSYOP/MindWar - Project MKULTRA and its connections to certain mass phenomena such as widespread distribution of LSD in counterculture circles in the 1960s, or even to domestic television programming: https://twitter.com/paulkleinfancam/status/1301197890887602177 https://twitter.com/paulkleinfancam/status/13011978908876021... - Iran/Contra and the War on Drugs as a stark example of "playing both sides," i.e. trafficking drugs into the U.S. and whipping up public panic and domestic military crackdown in response. I find this to be a particularly case where intentionality is hard to dismiss in favor of incompetence because so many of the players are present on both "sides" of the operation - Brian Hayden's examination of the role of secret societies in indigenous civilizations, where it has been observed that an occulted elite of "aggrandizers" would use various means of terror and ritual to control the mass of people to direct wealth and power to themselves (article here: https://www.templeton.org/grant/the-role-of-religion-in-social-change-the-case-of-secret-society-religions https://www.templeton.org/grant/the-role-of-religion-in-soci... podcast here: https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-the-aggrandizers-with-brian-hayden/ https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-th...)
currymj 6y ago
I’ve watched a couple of Adam Curtis’s films. He is a very skilled artist and they are entertaining, but I find them frustrating. They are smarter than conspiracy theories but they still follow a conspiracy logic. Finding patterns where there are none, spinning coincidences and correspondences into connections. Instead of making a claim about cause and effect he will just juxtapose some images. I think this is a very corrosive style of thinking, and a big problem for society. Adam Curtis makes good movies but it seems bad to get more people practicing this kind of reasoning. If you watch an Adam Curtis movie you’ll get the sensation you learned how things happened, but just try to explain in plain English what you learned afterwards.
- monadic3 6y ago
  > Finding patterns where there are none What are you referring to?
- thewarrior 6y ago
  I’d say it’s only partly true as a criticism. His documentary on the emergence of Islamic terrorism for eg is quite eye opening. It takes people through how some of the ideological progenitors were tortured in jails by US backed dictatorships. How they were armed and funded indirectly by the CIA and US backed regimes. And how the existence of these radicals was then used by the neocons to wage two destructive wars that are partly responsible for America’s stagnation. The problem is the length. If he cut the length by 50 % the problem would be solved. I think his documentaries show how complex the causes of some things are.
  - genericacct 6y ago
    He's aware of the length issue i believe; he's also aware of the fact that more episodes equal more pay.
    - thewarrior 6y ago
      And I’m aware of the 2x speed button
- 6y ago
cambalache 6y ago
I admit I just recently learned about Curtis (I am not a native English speaker) but the ideas of his documentaries seem fascinating, so I am planing to watch some of them. Now, my question is, What books would you consider in the same style? By that I mean content not form.
- bmitc 6y ago
  Others that cover these sort of system connections that I can think of are David Graeber and Noam Chomsky.
- rusk 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulf_War_Did_Not_Take_Place https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulf_War_Did_Not_Take_Pl...
- jazzyjackson 6y ago
  I'm not 100% sure of the overlap except for the cynicism, but I'm a fan of Franco "Bifo" Berardi and his book "Futurability: The Age of Impotence and the Horizon of Possibility' He takes a broad look at the change in motivation, the pyschological effects of believing we have no power over what happens in the future, a kind of answer to Curtis's "Hypernormalization" that explores how we thought we were in power, that we could rationalize outcomes, but in fact the world will always throw a wrench in your plans, and maybe there's no way to keep the world under control Franco doesn't see this as a reason to be nihilistic, but outlines how nihilism became a common response to the global financial and political trends. This one isn't a book but a written piece by Curtis in 2014, detailing one way the automated financial markets are an effort to keep things stable: https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7-30a0-9a0a-3ff76e8bfe58 https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7...
fortran77 6y ago
Here's a great observation: > “Can’t Get You Out of My Head” grew out of Curtis’s response to the populist insurgencies of 2016. Curtis was struck by the fury of mainstream liberals and their simultaneous lack of a meaningful vision of the future that might counter the visceral appeal of nationalism and xenophobia. “Those who were against all that didn’t really seem to have an alternative,” he said.
maxthegeek1 6y ago
I tried watching HyperNormalisation but I kept noticing inaccuracies, I got frustrated and had to stop.
- moner0 6y ago
  What sort of inaccuracies? I found a lot of interesting omissions, and some rather unsupported claims, but I would be interested to learn about concrete inaccuracies.
twic 6y ago
> Boone directed readers instead to a short online spoof of Curtis’s films by Ben Woodhams called “The Loving Trap,” which describes his work as the “televisual equivalent of a drunken late-night Wikipedia binge.” I'm glad this was mentioned, because i think it's hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bX3F7uTrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bX3F7uTrg

132 points by clydethefrog 6y ago

https://archive.is/CbDDL https://archive.is/CbDDL

js2 6y ago

This article is a review of a six-part series by filmmaker Adam Curtis that will air on BBC starting Feb 11th. Synopsis: > This new series of films tells the story of how we got to the strange days we are now experiencing. And why both those in power - and we - find it so difficult to move on. > The films trace different forces across the world that have led to now, not just in the West, but in China and Russia as well. It covers a wide range - including the strange roots of modern conspiracy theories, the history of China, opium and opiods, the history of Artificial Intelligence, melancholy over the loss of empire and, love and power. And explores whether modern culture, despite its radicalism, is really just part of the new system of power. https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021/cgyoomh https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/2021/cgyoomh

bmitc 6y ago

I really enjoy Adam Curtis’ documentaries. He hits the nail on the head and is great viewing for anyone that likes systems level thinking. I’m looking forward to his new film and have seen most of his prior films. One curious thing is that after watching his documentaries, I do find myself a bit confused about what it all means. His theories weave sometimes complex narratives, and it’s a lot to take in. I think the hardest thing to reconcile is the intent of the people behind or at least catalyze the phenomena that arise. Is the world essentially driven by emergent incompetence and narcissism or is there something more sinister and intentional about it all?

rapsey 6y ago
One thing you should keep in mind is never to trust a narrative explanation of events and history. Human brains are hard wired to believe and think in narratives. Reality however is not some grand story arc.
- everybodyknows 6y ago
  For a good read on selecting evidence to fit the desired narrative, try Richard Feynman’s critique of the Challenger investigation. In one of his as-told-to autobiographies: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01921-7 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-393-01...
  - olivermarks 6y ago
    Your ISBN link didn't arrive at Feynman's book, here it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_People_Think%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Do_You_Care_What_Other_Pe... Separately I loathe the lazy term 'conspiracy theory', which essentially means a suspicion that a secretive group of people have/are trying to conspire to take advantage. The term is endlessly used as a vague, dismissive pejorative of everything from investigative journalism the speaker/writer doesn't like to close down any sort of open ended questioning conversation. It's even abbreviated to 'conspiracy' which makes little sense.
    - Krasnol 6y ago
      I like the term "conspiracy myth". It spreads in Germany now and I find it's quite useful.
      - olivermarks 6y ago
        Why is that useful? The challenge with overuse of the term 'conspiracy' is that like the suddenly common term 'baseless' it all too often ignores conjecture based on facts and events that arouse suspicions. One man's hilariously mad tin foil hat conspiracy theorist is another man's investigative journalist...and imo opinion we can't have enough of those...
        AndrewBissell 6y ago
        A really funny thing recently was various media dismissing "baseless conspiracy theories" about "the Great Reset," when there is clearly a very public and well documented foundation of various public officials using the term in the broader context of pushing certain agendas. One can still argue whether each of the various theories spun out of this is true or not, but it's silly to call them "baseless."
AndrewBissell 6y ago
Some threads to follow if you are interested in pursuing the "intentional" angle: - Michael Aquino and PSYOP/MindWar - Project MKULTRA and its connections to certain mass phenomena such as widespread distribution of LSD in counterculture circles in the 1960s, or even to domestic television programming: https://twitter.com/paulkleinfancam/status/1301197890887602177 https://twitter.com/paulkleinfancam/status/13011978908876021... - Iran/Contra and the War on Drugs as a stark example of "playing both sides," i.e. trafficking drugs into the U.S. and whipping up public panic and domestic military crackdown in response. I find this to be a particularly case where intentionality is hard to dismiss in favor of incompetence because so many of the players are present on both "sides" of the operation - Brian Hayden's examination of the role of secret societies in indigenous civilizations, where it has been observed that an occulted elite of "aggrandizers" would use various means of terror and ritual to control the mass of people to direct wealth and power to themselves (article here: https://www.templeton.org/grant/the-role-of-religion-in-social-change-the-case-of-secret-society-religions https://www.templeton.org/grant/the-role-of-religion-in-soci... podcast here: https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-the-aggrandizers-with-brian-hayden/ https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-arrival-of-th...)

currymj 6y ago

I’ve watched a couple of Adam Curtis’s films. He is a very skilled artist and they are entertaining, but I find them frustrating. They are smarter than conspiracy theories but they still follow a conspiracy logic. Finding patterns where there are none, spinning coincidences and correspondences into connections. Instead of making a claim about cause and effect he will just juxtapose some images. I think this is a very corrosive style of thinking, and a big problem for society. Adam Curtis makes good movies but it seems bad to get more people practicing this kind of reasoning. If you watch an Adam Curtis movie you’ll get the sensation you learned how things happened, but just try to explain in plain English what you learned afterwards.

monadic3 6y ago
> Finding patterns where there are none What are you referring to?
thewarrior 6y ago
I’d say it’s only partly true as a criticism. His documentary on the emergence of Islamic terrorism for eg is quite eye opening. It takes people through how some of the ideological progenitors were tortured in jails by US backed dictatorships. How they were armed and funded indirectly by the CIA and US backed regimes. And how the existence of these radicals was then used by the neocons to wage two destructive wars that are partly responsible for America’s stagnation. The problem is the length. If he cut the length by 50 % the problem would be solved. I think his documentaries show how complex the causes of some things are.
- genericacct 6y ago
  He's aware of the length issue i believe; he's also aware of the fact that more episodes equal more pay.
  - thewarrior 6y ago
    And I’m aware of the 2x speed button
6y ago

cambalache 6y ago

I admit I just recently learned about Curtis (I am not a native English speaker) but the ideas of his documentaries seem fascinating, so I am planing to watch some of them. Now, my question is, What books would you consider in the same style? By that I mean content not form.

bmitc 6y ago
Others that cover these sort of system connections that I can think of are David Graeber and Noam Chomsky.
rusk 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulf_War_Did_Not_Take_Place https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulf_War_Did_Not_Take_Pl...
jazzyjackson 6y ago
I'm not 100% sure of the overlap except for the cynicism, but I'm a fan of Franco "Bifo" Berardi and his book "Futurability: The Age of Impotence and the Horizon of Possibility' He takes a broad look at the change in motivation, the pyschological effects of believing we have no power over what happens in the future, a kind of answer to Curtis's "Hypernormalization" that explores how we thought we were in power, that we could rationalize outcomes, but in fact the world will always throw a wrench in your plans, and maybe there's no way to keep the world under control Franco doesn't see this as a reason to be nihilistic, but outlines how nihilism became a common response to the global financial and political trends. This one isn't a book but a written piece by Curtis in 2014, detailing one way the automated financial markets are an effort to keep things stable: https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7-30a0-9a0a-3ff76e8bfe58 https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/78691781-c9b7...

fortran77 6y ago

Here's a great observation: > “Can’t Get You Out of My Head” grew out of Curtis’s response to the populist insurgencies of 2016. Curtis was struck by the fury of mainstream liberals and their simultaneous lack of a meaningful vision of the future that might counter the visceral appeal of nationalism and xenophobia. “Those who were against all that didn’t really seem to have an alternative,” he said.

maxthegeek1 6y ago

I tried watching HyperNormalisation but I kept noticing inaccuracies, I got frustrated and had to stop.

moner0 6y ago
What sort of inaccuracies? I found a lot of interesting omissions, and some rather unsupported claims, but I would be interested to learn about concrete inaccuracies.

twic 6y ago

> Boone directed readers instead to a short online spoof of Curtis’s films by Ben Woodhams called “The Loving Trap,” which describes his work as the “televisual equivalent of a drunken late-night Wikipedia binge.” I'm glad this was mentioned, because i think it's hilarious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bX3F7uTrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1bX3F7uTrg