6 ms·

> This is definitely illegal. I think there must be laws that say the CEO and the board must get prison terms (preferably life, with no possibility of parole)

> This is definitely illegal. I think there must be laws that say the CEO and the board must get prison terms (preferably life, with no possibility of parole) for these crimes. No, I will not listen to hogwash like "you shouldn't be responsible for the actions of people you hire". BS. They report to you. Even if they did it on their own, why didn't you reverse it? If you are not responsible for the actions of your employees or contractors, don't hire them. Close down. See if I care.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Why are Americans so crazy for absurdly long penal punishments?
- munk-a 6y ago
  I think it's generally because most Americans would be looking at ridiculously long prison sentences for common actions if they got caught (like possession) and because the US's general view is that there isn't anything in the world that can't be cured by throwing more prison time at it.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    Really? Where in America are you looking at a "ridiculous" long prison sentence in 2020 for possession? The war on drugs sucked, but it was still mostly a war against dealers.
    - lamontcg 6y ago
      Not if you were black and used crack. And pretty much any prison for posession and use is rediculous, if its a problem for the user it is a mental health issue and prison is the wrong treatment. And of course the limits on what determines if you're a dealer is set low enough, and carrier laws meant that many users were getting prosecuted like dealers. And what defines a "dealer" since someone doing a group buy for three friends is significantly less socially problematic than someone trafficking drugs across the border.
      - whimsicalism 6y ago
        I of course agree. It is ridiculous. I also grew up in one of the cities that was the center of the so-called "crime epidemic." We've definitely improved on sentencing since 30 years ago. I just don't think it is accurate to say that people are getting super long sentences for possession anymore and I don't think it is right to use that as justification for longer sentences for other people.
        lamontcg 6y ago
        Well #1: yes the are. #2: drug addiction is a mental health problem (and not all drug use is addiction) and any sentence for possession is too much.
        whimsicalism 6y ago
        yes the are what? #2: I completely agree.
        lamontcg 6y ago
        yes theY are [still getting super long sentences] three strikes laws still exist, it is still possible to push possession into felony territory. if there's a gun anywhere near the arrest you can probably tack on firearms charges, etc. if you're reasonably white and middle class those extras will be ignored for a lighter sentence. if you're black or for whatever other reason they just don't like you then they'll tack those extras on and three strikes you. there is a lot of "prosecutorial discretion" still, and if you dig into it hard enough that's a code word for racially biased prosecution. the fact that they we reasonable with you or your college buddies who got busted with some MDMA or something is not the same experience that lower income black people get.
      - asveikau 6y ago
        Afaik there is a recording of Nixon saying that they want to use drug penalties to go after black people and hippies. A lot of times those racially biased outcomes are the product of many unrelated parts of a big and complicated system, but in this case the top of executive government seemed pretty deliberate about this.
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  What else can you do to a ceo? Fines mean nothing.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    A shorter jail sentence? Somehow I feel like there is perhaps a less harsh punishment than life in prison but perhaps worse than a fine.
    - tartoran 6y ago
      A jail sentence for such a well positioned white collar criminal is probably comparable to a retreat lodge. Such an institution certainly doesn't have prison bars and a fenced perimeter because it is low security and has a special privilege.
      - whimsicalism 6y ago
        So what - somehow somewhere someone will have the power to jail these white collar criminals for their entire life, but they don't have the power to make a 5 year jail sentence more uncomfortable? Your objection doesn't even make sense.
    - thatguy0900 6y ago
      These people are leveraging everything in their power to fuck over millions to save themselves money. We put them away for 5 years and they still come out billionaires in the end, why wouldn't they do it?
      - whimsicalism 6y ago
        These people are already billionaires or large multi millionaires. If I had a billion dollars and could get 2 billion dollars but I'd go to jail for 5 years, I would absolutely NOT do that thing.
  - teddyh 6y ago
    > Fines mean nothing. Fines can mean something, if scaled correctly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine
- pxtail 6y ago
  Apparently in America there are huge prisons owned by private companies, traded on stock market of course. With this scenario one can quite easily imagine that incarcerating more and more inmates for maximally long periods of time could be something that is wanted and desired.
- matthewrobertso 6y ago
  Because nothing happened when wall street bankrupted the country by gambling and needed to be bailed out in 2008, and then paid themselves huge bonuses.
  - Aunche 6y ago
    Very few people actually got punished, but a lot changed since 2008. Executives were forced to step down. Several major players went bankrupt and many more lost 95%+ of their valuations. Anecdotally, I hear that companies are taking compliance much more seriously. HN would call the surveillance at banks today Orwellian if they were more knowledgable about it.
    - dragonsngoblins 6y ago
      Oh no people had to step down? They fucked up, lost their company loads of money and gasp got fired?! Like. I understand your point but a lot of people really don't think that is punishment really
    - LandR 6y ago
      Even if they lost their job, they are still incredibly wealthy. That's not any sort of repercussion, at all. Its nothing. These people who are gambling with peoples lives and livelihoods just to get richer need to start going to jail. Nothing will change until proper punishments are handed out that makes people reconsider being a greedy, selfish, morally reprehensible piece of shit.
- llampx 6y ago
  Where are you from that you don't have bloodlust for those that wronged you?
- srswtf123 6y ago
  I think, at this point, we’d be happy to see any actual punishment doled out to the “upper classes”. We know it will never happen, so we wish for absurd things.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  Recommended listening while you read my rant: white trash anthem - blood for blood lyrics[0] https://youtu.be/ghybm4Y6C7w https://youtu.be/ghybm4Y6C7w Here's my perspective. I spent my childhood around kids from broken families, most of whom had parents in prison on long sentences for nonviolent drug charges. I saw lots of my friends lose their houses in the 00s. I entered a job market that treats just about everyone as disposable; unworthy of training, investment, benefits, time off, bathroom breaks, ppe, or a livable wage. Wall sts focus on the short term has been like napalm on these issues and made fixing them political suicide. I don't say this lightly; wall st has enslaved America for profit. >The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90% [1] The proletariat is showing their heads and nipping at the ankles of everyone. Some are misguided, but beating a hedge fund at their own game, trying to convince boomers that black lives matter enough to not be executed by police, or Medicare for All or forgiving student loan debt are all extremely well studied solutions to systemic issues in America that will not be meaningfully addressed until the root problems are addressed: money in politics, racism, trickle down economics, class inequality, asset inflation, health care, employee rights, war on drugs, etc, etc, etc. This specific incident was a fluke of luck that required ridiculously overpaid bros in cushy hedge fund jobs to count past 100% while shorting gme/nok/AMC which is playing with the lives and livelihood of the people that work in each of those companies. Needless to say, but watching billionaires repeat '08 with gamestop, amc, and Nokia ruffled a lot of feathers. Gme especially brought out some whales with money to burn in the chase of infinite gains. Maybe this was an elaborate psyop to manipulate people into doing things they wouldn't. If so, great job, if not, well maybe the fat cats on wall st and in Congress should come around my hood and experience the hopelessness for themselves, that's an open invitation for as long as this account is active for any billionaires or US politicians not already arguing against the same issues I am to come and walk in my shoes. Hopefully this incident spurs some change in wall st and the culture there. Congress certainly doesn't have the courage to. [0] http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/bloodforblood/outlawanthems.html#5 http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/bloodforblood/outlawanthems... [1] https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/ https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-ameri...
- MisterBastahrd 6y ago
  For financial crimes? Because nothing ever happens to the rich when all you do is take a bit of their money away. They have so much that they will get it back merely for being wealthy, and as we just saw with the recent pardons, they won't even serve their entire sentence even when they're stealing the life savings of hundreds.

whimsicalism 6y ago

Why are Americans so crazy for absurdly long penal punishments?

munk-a 6y ago
I think it's generally because most Americans would be looking at ridiculously long prison sentences for common actions if they got caught (like possession) and because the US's general view is that there isn't anything in the world that can't be cured by throwing more prison time at it.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Really? Where in America are you looking at a "ridiculous" long prison sentence in 2020 for possession? The war on drugs sucked, but it was still mostly a war against dealers.
  - lamontcg 6y ago
    Not if you were black and used crack. And pretty much any prison for posession and use is rediculous, if its a problem for the user it is a mental health issue and prison is the wrong treatment. And of course the limits on what determines if you're a dealer is set low enough, and carrier laws meant that many users were getting prosecuted like dealers. And what defines a "dealer" since someone doing a group buy for three friends is significantly less socially problematic than someone trafficking drugs across the border.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      I of course agree. It is ridiculous. I also grew up in one of the cities that was the center of the so-called "crime epidemic." We've definitely improved on sentencing since 30 years ago. I just don't think it is accurate to say that people are getting super long sentences for possession anymore and I don't think it is right to use that as justification for longer sentences for other people.
      - lamontcg 6y ago
        Well #1: yes the are. #2: drug addiction is a mental health problem (and not all drug use is addiction) and any sentence for possession is too much.
        whimsicalism 6y ago
        yes the are what? #2: I completely agree.
        lamontcg 6y ago
        yes theY are [still getting super long sentences] three strikes laws still exist, it is still possible to push possession into felony territory. if there's a gun anywhere near the arrest you can probably tack on firearms charges, etc. if you're reasonably white and middle class those extras will be ignored for a lighter sentence. if you're black or for whatever other reason they just don't like you then they'll tack those extras on and three strikes you. there is a lot of "prosecutorial discretion" still, and if you dig into it hard enough that's a code word for racially biased prosecution. the fact that they we reasonable with you or your college buddies who got busted with some MDMA or something is not the same experience that lower income black people get.
    - asveikau 6y ago
      Afaik there is a recording of Nixon saying that they want to use drug penalties to go after black people and hippies. A lot of times those racially biased outcomes are the product of many unrelated parts of a big and complicated system, but in this case the top of executive government seemed pretty deliberate about this.
thatguy0900 6y ago
What else can you do to a ceo? Fines mean nothing.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  A shorter jail sentence? Somehow I feel like there is perhaps a less harsh punishment than life in prison but perhaps worse than a fine.
  - tartoran 6y ago
    A jail sentence for such a well positioned white collar criminal is probably comparable to a retreat lodge. Such an institution certainly doesn't have prison bars and a fenced perimeter because it is low security and has a special privilege.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      So what - somehow somewhere someone will have the power to jail these white collar criminals for their entire life, but they don't have the power to make a 5 year jail sentence more uncomfortable? Your objection doesn't even make sense.
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    These people are leveraging everything in their power to fuck over millions to save themselves money. We put them away for 5 years and they still come out billionaires in the end, why wouldn't they do it?
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      These people are already billionaires or large multi millionaires. If I had a billion dollars and could get 2 billion dollars but I'd go to jail for 5 years, I would absolutely NOT do that thing.
- teddyh 6y ago
  > Fines mean nothing. Fines can mean something, if scaled correctly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine
pxtail 6y ago
Apparently in America there are huge prisons owned by private companies, traded on stock market of course. With this scenario one can quite easily imagine that incarcerating more and more inmates for maximally long periods of time could be something that is wanted and desired.
matthewrobertso 6y ago
Because nothing happened when wall street bankrupted the country by gambling and needed to be bailed out in 2008, and then paid themselves huge bonuses.
- Aunche 6y ago
  Very few people actually got punished, but a lot changed since 2008. Executives were forced to step down. Several major players went bankrupt and many more lost 95%+ of their valuations. Anecdotally, I hear that companies are taking compliance much more seriously. HN would call the surveillance at banks today Orwellian if they were more knowledgable about it.
  - dragonsngoblins 6y ago
    Oh no people had to step down? They fucked up, lost their company loads of money and gasp got fired?! Like. I understand your point but a lot of people really don't think that is punishment really
  - LandR 6y ago
    Even if they lost their job, they are still incredibly wealthy. That's not any sort of repercussion, at all. Its nothing. These people who are gambling with peoples lives and livelihoods just to get richer need to start going to jail. Nothing will change until proper punishments are handed out that makes people reconsider being a greedy, selfish, morally reprehensible piece of shit.
llampx 6y ago
Where are you from that you don't have bloodlust for those that wronged you?
srswtf123 6y ago
I think, at this point, we’d be happy to see any actual punishment doled out to the “upper classes”. We know it will never happen, so we wish for absurd things.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
Recommended listening while you read my rant: white trash anthem - blood for blood lyrics[0] https://youtu.be/ghybm4Y6C7w https://youtu.be/ghybm4Y6C7w Here's my perspective. I spent my childhood around kids from broken families, most of whom had parents in prison on long sentences for nonviolent drug charges. I saw lots of my friends lose their houses in the 00s. I entered a job market that treats just about everyone as disposable; unworthy of training, investment, benefits, time off, bathroom breaks, ppe, or a livable wage. Wall sts focus on the short term has been like napalm on these issues and made fixing them political suicide. I don't say this lightly; wall st has enslaved America for profit. >The Top 1% of Americans Have Taken $50 Trillion From the Bottom 90% [1] The proletariat is showing their heads and nipping at the ankles of everyone. Some are misguided, but beating a hedge fund at their own game, trying to convince boomers that black lives matter enough to not be executed by police, or Medicare for All or forgiving student loan debt are all extremely well studied solutions to systemic issues in America that will not be meaningfully addressed until the root problems are addressed: money in politics, racism, trickle down economics, class inequality, asset inflation, health care, employee rights, war on drugs, etc, etc, etc. This specific incident was a fluke of luck that required ridiculously overpaid bros in cushy hedge fund jobs to count past 100% while shorting gme/nok/AMC which is playing with the lives and livelihood of the people that work in each of those companies. Needless to say, but watching billionaires repeat '08 with gamestop, amc, and Nokia ruffled a lot of feathers. Gme especially brought out some whales with money to burn in the chase of infinite gains. Maybe this was an elaborate psyop to manipulate people into doing things they wouldn't. If so, great job, if not, well maybe the fat cats on wall st and in Congress should come around my hood and experience the hopelessness for themselves, that's an open invitation for as long as this account is active for any billionaires or US politicians not already arguing against the same issues I am to come and walk in my shoes. Hopefully this incident spurs some change in wall st and the culture there. Congress certainly doesn't have the courage to. [0] http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/bloodforblood/outlawanthems.html#5 http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/bloodforblood/outlawanthems... [1] https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/ https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-ameri...
MisterBastahrd 6y ago
For financial crimes? Because nothing ever happens to the rich when all you do is take a bit of their money away. They have so much that they will get it back merely for being wealthy, and as we just saw with the recent pardons, they won't even serve their entire sentence even when they're stealing the life savings of hundreds.