5 ms·

100k for a car, but no 5 dollars for a window hammer/seat belt cutter.

chrisseaton 6y ago
I've never known a civilian carry a hammer or seat belt cutter. Do you? I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to do that.
- vntok 6y ago
  No it's complete nonsense apart from public transport vehicles like buses where passengers are kind of expected to be able to find and use window hammers in case of emergency.
  - bluSCALE4 6y ago
    You must have never ridden public transportation. Must buses have certain windows with levers and need to be pushed out or kicked out. Trains have release levers to open doors and some have close buttons, at least the CTA does next to the red pull knob.
- craftinator 6y ago
  Interesting, nearly all of my family and friends carry a window breaker in the car. I started doing so after trying to help someone out of a car after they crashed, and realizing just how tough those windows are to break.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  I keep a small cutter + window breaker combo in my car. [0] not sure how effective it would be, but it's small and cheap. is it reasonable to expect people to do this? I dunno, you're driving around at high speeds in a metal box. no matter how well engineered, some fraction of the time it is going to crumple in a way that the doors no longer work. of course, if you're going to account for this tail risk, there's a lot of other emergency equipment you should probably carry around for more likely events. I can't leave my house everyday with 200 lbs of equipment. [0] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Accessories/dp/B073JCMTW2 https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-...
- Symbiote 6y ago
  There are key-fob seat belt cutters, for example [1]. I've never noticed anyone carrying one though. I note that most buses and trains have window hammers (or some other way to break the windows), usually several per vehicle. [1] https://resqme.com/product/resqme/ https://resqme.com/product/resqme/
- nradov 6y ago
  I do. It's cheap insurance. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073JCMTW2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_YA46PMKFXPW9E2SK0HZ9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073JCMTW2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc...
Aardwolf 6y ago
Are you normally supposed to have those things in your car?
- ballenf 6y ago
  Not if the cost/hassle of having one is higher than the very specific type of insurance against doors being stuck it provides. I don't think any car company or stranger can answer that for you. Most people don't have non-expired fire extinguishers in their house either (in the US).
- leetcrew 6y ago
  supposed to according to whom? it's a small risk that you can partially mitigate by keeping a cheap tool on hand. it's up to you to decide whether it's worth the trouble.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  I actually do agree that all drivers should have an emergency window breaker, irrespective of the handle fault issue. In the event of a crash where the car is submerged in water, the outside pressure might not allow you to open doors and window breaking or equalising pressure, is your only way out. Having said that, GP made a rather disgusting comment where he is blaming a dead person for not having a non-mandatory emergency window breaker in a car compartment. From the article description the handles don't appear to be fault-tolerant and should certainly be investigated.
bobflorian 6y ago
You assume the person was able to attempt to escape. It said they survived the crash, but they could have been incapacitated.
bichiliad 6y ago
That's a pretty reductive assessment of what happened here. A system that requires you to remember to buy a window hammer on the off chance the doors don't open is a system that has failed. We expect cars to have thousands of other safety features — we don't bring our own seatbelts in case the ones in the cars fail, and we don't wear helmets in case the airbags fail to deploy.
- bluSCALE4 6y ago
  It has nothing to do with the window. If you own a car and don't own one, you should go out an buy one. That should be your takeaway.
jarito 6y ago
Victim blaming here isn't really very helpful. Cars should be designed with an eye towards how they perform in an emergency. There is a reasonable case that Tesla didn't do that. As an owner of a Model 3 now, it is concerning to me how I would get out of the car if the electrics fail as exiting requires a button press controlled by a computer. Most people don't have a hammer / seat belt cutter. It is not a required piece of equipment. People aren't trained in its use. There is no expectation that a standard driver (at least in the US) should be able to use this tool. This is Tesla's issue, not the drivers.
- bobflorian 6y ago
  You realize your Model 3 has a mechanical lever to open the doors if electronics fail? ( I own a Model 3 too )
  - avianlyric 6y ago
    Only for the front doors. With the rear doors your SOL.
- bluSCALE4 6y ago
  Fair point, there is an obvious assumption that the driver was capable of using such a tool at the time. Anyway, I intention wasn't to blame, merely an dark observation.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mauvehaus 6y ago
Having watched a fireman take three good swings with the pick side of a fire axe to break a tempered glass passenger window, I am thoroughly unconvinced that those hammers will do shit in an emergency.
- meowster 6y ago
  That firefighter needed training. Trying to bash the window is not going to work. Wedging the axe between the window and door frame and using the axe as a lever with just a little force, the window would have easily shattered.
- Symbiote 6y ago
  At least the hammers I see (on European trains and buses) have a sharp, conical tip. There are usually instructions to hit the window close to the corner. See the picture on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_hammer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_hammer (The wording in the Wikipedia article is not clear. Do American trains really not have these?)
- rasz 6y ago
  lack of training https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTa8Nh0VlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTa8Nh0VlE

I've never known a civilian carry a hammer or seat belt cutter. Do you? I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to do that.

vntok 6y ago
No it's complete nonsense apart from public transport vehicles like buses where passengers are kind of expected to be able to find and use window hammers in case of emergency.
- bluSCALE4 6y ago
  You must have never ridden public transportation. Must buses have certain windows with levers and need to be pushed out or kicked out. Trains have release levers to open doors and some have close buttons, at least the CTA does next to the red pull knob.
craftinator 6y ago
Interesting, nearly all of my family and friends carry a window breaker in the car. I started doing so after trying to help someone out of a car after they crashed, and realizing just how tough those windows are to break.
leetcrew 6y ago
I keep a small cutter + window breaker combo in my car. [0] not sure how effective it would be, but it's small and cheap. is it reasonable to expect people to do this? I dunno, you're driving around at high speeds in a metal box. no matter how well engineered, some fraction of the time it is going to crumple in a way that the doors no longer work. of course, if you're going to account for this tail risk, there's a lot of other emergency equipment you should probably carry around for more likely events. I can't leave my house everyday with 200 lbs of equipment. [0] https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-Accessories/dp/B073JCMTW2 https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Emergency-Cutter-Window-...
Symbiote 6y ago
There are key-fob seat belt cutters, for example [1]. I've never noticed anyone carrying one though. I note that most buses and trains have window hammers (or some other way to break the windows), usually several per vehicle. [1] https://resqme.com/product/resqme/ https://resqme.com/product/resqme/
nradov 6y ago
I do. It's cheap insurance. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073JCMTW2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_YA46PMKFXPW9E2SK0HZ9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073JCMTW2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc...

Aardwolf 6y ago

Are you normally supposed to have those things in your car?

ballenf 6y ago
Not if the cost/hassle of having one is higher than the very specific type of insurance against doors being stuck it provides. I don't think any car company or stranger can answer that for you. Most people don't have non-expired fire extinguishers in their house either (in the US).
leetcrew 6y ago
supposed to according to whom? it's a small risk that you can partially mitigate by keeping a cheap tool on hand. it's up to you to decide whether it's worth the trouble.
DoingIsLearning 6y ago
I actually do agree that all drivers should have an emergency window breaker, irrespective of the handle fault issue. In the event of a crash where the car is submerged in water, the outside pressure might not allow you to open doors and window breaking or equalising pressure, is your only way out. Having said that, GP made a rather disgusting comment where he is blaming a dead person for not having a non-mandatory emergency window breaker in a car compartment. From the article description the handles don't appear to be fault-tolerant and should certainly be investigated.

bobflorian 6y ago

You assume the person was able to attempt to escape. It said they survived the crash, but they could have been incapacitated.

bichiliad 6y ago

That's a pretty reductive assessment of what happened here. A system that requires you to remember to buy a window hammer on the off chance the doors don't open is a system that has failed. We expect cars to have thousands of other safety features — we don't bring our own seatbelts in case the ones in the cars fail, and we don't wear helmets in case the airbags fail to deploy.

bluSCALE4 6y ago
It has nothing to do with the window. If you own a car and don't own one, you should go out an buy one. That should be your takeaway.

jarito 6y ago

Victim blaming here isn't really very helpful. Cars should be designed with an eye towards how they perform in an emergency. There is a reasonable case that Tesla didn't do that. As an owner of a Model 3 now, it is concerning to me how I would get out of the car if the electrics fail as exiting requires a button press controlled by a computer. Most people don't have a hammer / seat belt cutter. It is not a required piece of equipment. People aren't trained in its use. There is no expectation that a standard driver (at least in the US) should be able to use this tool. This is Tesla's issue, not the drivers.

bobflorian 6y ago
You realize your Model 3 has a mechanical lever to open the doors if electronics fail? ( I own a Model 3 too )
- avianlyric 6y ago
  Only for the front doors. With the rear doors your SOL.
bluSCALE4 6y ago
Fair point, there is an obvious assumption that the driver was capable of using such a tool at the time. Anyway, I intention wasn't to blame, merely an dark observation.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mauvehaus 6y ago

Having watched a fireman take three good swings with the pick side of a fire axe to break a tempered glass passenger window, I am thoroughly unconvinced that those hammers will do shit in an emergency.

meowster 6y ago
That firefighter needed training. Trying to bash the window is not going to work. Wedging the axe between the window and door frame and using the axe as a lever with just a little force, the window would have easily shattered.
Symbiote 6y ago
At least the hammers I see (on European trains and buses) have a sharp, conical tip. There are usually instructions to hit the window close to the corner. See the picture on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_hammer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_hammer (The wording in the Wikipedia article is not clear. Do American trains really not have these?)
rasz 6y ago
lack of training https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTa8Nh0VlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZTa8Nh0VlE