7 ms·

For all the uneasy feelings I get about the triggerhappy banning by these platforms, there's probably a light at end of the tunnel. Boot enough people and the b

For all the uneasy feelings I get about the triggerhappy banning by these platforms, there's probably a light at end of the tunnel. Boot enough people and the better alternatives might actually flourish with network effects.

skarz 6y ago
Wait you actually think that when people are banned they simply just "go away"? Vanish in to thin air? Problem solved?
- llampx 6y ago
  The way bans on reddit have tended to work is that by dispersing the group, there's an additional barrier created to stop the spread of the idea. This has happened with fatpeoplehate, the trump reddit, and with the red pill reddit among others. Its not just a group of people of a similar knowledge level and similar ideas coming together, it is also new users happening across the subreddit and deciding to take part. Take away the new users and it becomes an echo chamber. This is what makes Youtube, Reddit and Facebook so powerful. They can choose who can stay on their platform, and how much discoverability their ideas have if they are allowed to stay on the platform.
  - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
    The only way to deal with it is through splitting these companies up - that's the only constitutional way, and we must start immediately. They're too big.
    - betwixthewires 6y ago
      They're not going to be too big for very long. Their size depends on people being there, and if they keep banning people they'll just get smaller. Once all the interesting people are banned the regular people will go where the interesting people are. They're about to have their blockbuster moment and no bailouts can stop it.
      - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
        I hope you're right - I truly believe that post 2012 social media has been a cancer on society, in addition to the 24/7 newscycle. But I somehow am not as optimistic as you are. People far underestimate the power of twitter/fb/youtube. The power in those sites is that they are not siloed and at scale, meaning you can reach a much broader audience. Parler would never be able to influence the mass market because it was so specialized - making it ineffective at evangelization. WSB would never be what it is without the platform of reddit. Going to a small specific site will not have the same power, even though I think it is better to host your own hardware and do that.
  - cwkoss 6y ago
    i dont think banning the trump subreddit dispersed the group
  - betwixthewires 6y ago
    But this approach has diminishing returns. Sure, for the past few years this had the effect of isolating these groups from polite society. But eventually, when they start banning large, main stream groups like, say, people that want to make money in the stock market, people that dislike wall street, and one of two political parties in the USA, all they're going to do is lose market share and therefore their ability to police the internet. People don't use YouTube because they like the logo, people use YouTube because they like the videos on the site. At some point all the cool kids are on other websites, and once the herd follows you've lost control over anything. I'm very excited about it personally, I like disruption.
- NationalPark 6y ago
  That's pretty much what happened when they studied it, interestingly enough: http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf
- DavidSJ 6y ago
  I think that's the opposite of what they said.
- mdoms 6y ago
  No, no one thinks that. What point are you trying to make?
- PointyFluff 6y ago
  Discord is just irc with extra censorship.
Blikkentrekker 6y ago
Apparently 4chan floods with increase in traffic after such waves. 8chan, which was far better, went under for it though.
- TechBro8615 6y ago
  The fact that 4Chan itself has not been the target of deplatforming efforts is confusing to me. If I were to put my tinfoil hat on for a bit, I might speculate that it’s a honeypot that shares data with the feds.
  - medicineman 6y ago
    always has been
  - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
    4chan hosts it's own server: — how could it? Cloudflare did drop 8chan for political pressure. Both also have a very undeserved reputation. I saw news reports on 8chan as if it were something similar to Stormfront. The front page was mostly video game and pornography and one had to search very deep into it's hidden circles to find racial supremacy content.
    - baud147258 6y ago
      Even if 4chan host their servers, if they're not in someone's basement, they'd be in colocation, which can then be targeted, since I don't think 4chan own the full datacenter.
      - swebs 6y ago
        Don't know about now, but it was hosted in a basement as of 2012. https://i.warosu.org/data/g/img/0689/86/1545245294211.jpg https://i.warosu.org/data/g/img/0689/86/1545245294211.jpg
    - dmurray 6y ago
      > 4chan hosts it's own server: — how could it? ISPs could just drop their customers' traffic to that server. This happens all the time and has happened to 4chan before. Or they could go further and refuse to peer with any ISP that doesn't block 4chan, or lobby to have the government compel ISPs to block it, likely on think-of-the-children or think-of-the-terrorism grounds. Self hosting definitely isn't some magic way of preventing all censorship.
wvenable 6y ago
I agree with you but I don't have any uneasy feelings -- these are private companies doing whatever they want with their resources. The sooner everybody wakes up to this fact, the sooner all this pointless hand-wringing will be over.
betwixthewires 6y ago
Yep, this is for me very exciting. I like banwaves. They're digging their own graves, they'll go the way of Blockbuster soon, and the internet, public discourse, information availability and dare I say humanity will be better for it. I wish they'd do it faster.

skarz 6y ago

Wait you actually think that when people are banned they simply just "go away"? Vanish in to thin air? Problem solved?

llampx 6y ago
The way bans on reddit have tended to work is that by dispersing the group, there's an additional barrier created to stop the spread of the idea. This has happened with fatpeoplehate, the trump reddit, and with the red pill reddit among others. Its not just a group of people of a similar knowledge level and similar ideas coming together, it is also new users happening across the subreddit and deciding to take part. Take away the new users and it becomes an echo chamber. This is what makes Youtube, Reddit and Facebook so powerful. They can choose who can stay on their platform, and how much discoverability their ideas have if they are allowed to stay on the platform.
- ntsplnkv2 6y ago
  The only way to deal with it is through splitting these companies up - that's the only constitutional way, and we must start immediately. They're too big.
  - betwixthewires 6y ago
    They're not going to be too big for very long. Their size depends on people being there, and if they keep banning people they'll just get smaller. Once all the interesting people are banned the regular people will go where the interesting people are. They're about to have their blockbuster moment and no bailouts can stop it.
    - ntsplnkv2 6y ago
      I hope you're right - I truly believe that post 2012 social media has been a cancer on society, in addition to the 24/7 newscycle. But I somehow am not as optimistic as you are. People far underestimate the power of twitter/fb/youtube. The power in those sites is that they are not siloed and at scale, meaning you can reach a much broader audience. Parler would never be able to influence the mass market because it was so specialized - making it ineffective at evangelization. WSB would never be what it is without the platform of reddit. Going to a small specific site will not have the same power, even though I think it is better to host your own hardware and do that.
- cwkoss 6y ago
  i dont think banning the trump subreddit dispersed the group
- betwixthewires 6y ago
  But this approach has diminishing returns. Sure, for the past few years this had the effect of isolating these groups from polite society. But eventually, when they start banning large, main stream groups like, say, people that want to make money in the stock market, people that dislike wall street, and one of two political parties in the USA, all they're going to do is lose market share and therefore their ability to police the internet. People don't use YouTube because they like the logo, people use YouTube because they like the videos on the site. At some point all the cool kids are on other websites, and once the herd follows you've lost control over anything. I'm very excited about it personally, I like disruption.
NationalPark 6y ago
That's pretty much what happened when they studied it, interestingly enough: http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf http://comp.social.gatech.edu/papers/cscw18-chand-hate.pdf
DavidSJ 6y ago
I think that's the opposite of what they said.
mdoms 6y ago
No, no one thinks that. What point are you trying to make?
PointyFluff 6y ago
Discord is just irc with extra censorship.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago

Apparently 4chan floods with increase in traffic after such waves. 8chan, which was far better, went under for it though.

TechBro8615 6y ago
The fact that 4Chan itself has not been the target of deplatforming efforts is confusing to me. If I were to put my tinfoil hat on for a bit, I might speculate that it’s a honeypot that shares data with the feds.
- medicineman 6y ago
  always has been
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  4chan hosts it's own server: — how could it? Cloudflare did drop 8chan for political pressure. Both also have a very undeserved reputation. I saw news reports on 8chan as if it were something similar to Stormfront. The front page was mostly video game and pornography and one had to search very deep into it's hidden circles to find racial supremacy content.
  - baud147258 6y ago
    Even if 4chan host their servers, if they're not in someone's basement, they'd be in colocation, which can then be targeted, since I don't think 4chan own the full datacenter.
    - swebs 6y ago
      Don't know about now, but it was hosted in a basement as of 2012. https://i.warosu.org/data/g/img/0689/86/1545245294211.jpg https://i.warosu.org/data/g/img/0689/86/1545245294211.jpg
  - dmurray 6y ago
    > 4chan hosts it's own server: — how could it? ISPs could just drop their customers' traffic to that server. This happens all the time and has happened to 4chan before. Or they could go further and refuse to peer with any ISP that doesn't block 4chan, or lobby to have the government compel ISPs to block it, likely on think-of-the-children or think-of-the-terrorism grounds. Self hosting definitely isn't some magic way of preventing all censorship.

wvenable 6y ago

I agree with you but I don't have any uneasy feelings -- these are private companies doing whatever they want with their resources. The sooner everybody wakes up to this fact, the sooner all this pointless hand-wringing will be over.

betwixthewires 6y ago

Yep, this is for me very exciting. I like banwaves. They're digging their own graves, they'll go the way of Blockbuster soon, and the internet, public discourse, information availability and dare I say humanity will be better for it. I wish they'd do it faster.