11 ms·

For superchargers, where you'd want it most, no. Superchargers use a specific protocol to communicate with the car for purposes of billing -- tied to the Tesla

by ReidZB 6y ago

For superchargers, where you'd want it most, no. Superchargers use a specific protocol to communicate with the car for purposes of billing -- tied to the Tesla account associated with the car. I don't think the plug itself is different than a normal Tesla plug (other than being beefier, perhaps?) but I could be wrong. For normal Tesla wall chargers, like one that might be installed at someone's house, I think there are adapters that might work for the Leaf, but I have no experience with them. That said, other than Tesla, I think there is standardization. Especially with Electrify America. But, Tesla's network is so convenient and widespread that it is currently a big selling point for the brand, in my opinion.

vel0city 6y ago
You cannot charge any non-Tesla car from a Tesla connector. Tesla uses a proprietary connector and signaling protocol.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  This is not true. Tesla destination chargers [1] will charge non-Tesla vehicles with an adapter. I have this adapter [2], and my friend's Bolt charges from my home charger (a high power wall charger on a 100A circuit) when he's over for beers. It is true that the V3 version of the Tesla destination charger (which is relatively new), which has a microcontroller/wifi/etc, has a config flag you can set to only charge Tesla vehicles and can whitelist by VIN, but it's still in the very early stage of release. @vel0city: In response to your deleted reply to this comment, if legacy automakers want access to Tesla's supercharging network for their own EVs, they should be prepared to contribute towards the enormous capex costs Tesla incurred as well as the ongoing operational expenses. Otherwise, legacy automakers who made no material effort to transition to EVs are free riding off of Tesla's hard work to build the network they now desperately need to remain in business. [1] https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging [2] https://smile.amazon.com/Lectron-Tesla-Charger-J1772-Adapter/dp/B07V7V2QT8 https://smile.amazon.com/Lectron-Tesla-Charger-J1772-Adapter...
  - labcomputer 6y ago
    I think it was clear from context that the person you're replying to was talking about DC fast chargers, not L2 AC charging.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Words means things, and those were not the words in their comment. > You cannot charge any non-Tesla car from a Tesla connector
      - labcomputer 6y ago
        With the implied context > [...] at a Supercharger station. But I repeat myself.
        Judgmentality 6y ago
        That wasn't implied to me. When people go out of their way to point out how what you said isn't what you meant to say, and you brush it off as "no no, it's you who don't understand my eloquent prose," you might want to consider taking the feedback as constructive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAuR5bkIlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAuR5bkIlQ
        icefrakker 6y ago
        Weird how your ego can't acknowledge you misspoke.
        kaishiro 6y ago
        Having followed this entire thread I did not assume this context either from what vel0city stated.
  - vel0city 6y ago
    Sorry, I guess I spoke too broadly. I was intending for this to be about the Supercharger stations as that's what TFA was about. This adapter will not work for any of the Telsa Supercharger stations you'll commonly find around. They'll work for the smaller charging stations that private individuals will own, but you won't be able to use Tesla's charging network with this adapter. Buying Tesla is supporting vendor lock-in and proprietary standards instead of supporting open standards.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  In Europe they use the CCS-Type2 standard, but only authorize Tesla cars to charge.
  - mahkeiro 6y ago
    It's almost certain that one brand charging station are going to be forbidden soon in Europe, as it is going to create a huge mess. Try to imagine if the gas station were only able to serve one brand...
    - speedgoose 6y ago
      Yes Tesla should open its chargers to everyone before they are forced to do so. I know some Tesla owners like the exclusivity but I think it will benefit the brand more to open the chargers.
      - esyir 6y ago
        I don't see how. "yes, we can now subsidise our competitors?"
        vel0city 6y ago
        I mean, they can still charge the owners of non-Tesla cars. They should be operating the charging stations to sell charging, not to have an anti-competitive edge on the market.
        speedgoose 6y ago
        If the experience at a Tesla charger is great, price is good, speed it good, you may be more interested into buying a Tesla. If Tesla chargers continue to be only exclusive to one brand and take so much space in the parking lots on the motorway, not as much. Ionity has a different pricing model for cars made by brands member of Ionity and other brands.
- reissbaker 6y ago
  Does the connector or signaling protocol really matter? I mean, Android and iOS both connect to other devices over standardized NFC, Bluetooth, WiFi, and mobile data network protocols, but good luck using an Apple Watch or Airpods or Airdrop with a Samsung phone. Your Samsung phone's text messages will never be shared onto your Macbook Pro's iMessage, and your iCloud backups will never be visible in your Google account. Standardized connectors don't mean anything if the vendor controls all sides of the software stack and wants the pieces to only work with that vendor's products. Tesla for better or for worse pursues Apple-like vertical integration to control the UX of every part of owning the car, from sales to nav to charging. While standardized connectors would be nice, it would mostly be nice for Tesla owners in that they wouldn't need a dongle to connect to public charging networks. (Maybe you're arguing that Tesla should be forced to provide Supercharger access at no additional cost to non-Tesla owners. I am not certain I agree with the "no additional cost" part, since Tesla had to shoulder the capital burden of building the network in the first place. But the connectors are the least important part of that anyway; non-Tesla owners could worst case use dongles, if Tesla were forced to provide access to the Supercharger network, just as Tesla owners use dongles to connect to public charging networks today. Dongles are stupid, yes, but they're less important than Tesla just providing access in the first place.) As far as home charging goes, personally I just use a standard 240V dryer outlet in my garage to charge; I plug the cord that came with my Model 3 into the outlet, and the other end of the cord (that has the proprietary connector) into the car. Any electric car would work with that setup, so the proprietary connector at the end of the cable doesn't impact me much; if I got a different electric car, I'm sure it would come with its own charging cable anyway that could be plugged into the 240V outlet.
jackson1442 6y ago
There is definitely a Tesla Level 2 -> CCS adapter, but no such luck for Superchargers. Not sure about Chademo, which is what a lot of the Leaf line uses.
- cptskippy 6y ago
  > Tesla Level 2 -> CCS A what now? I haven't seen anything CCS related in the US. Is that a European accessory? Don't all Teslas outside the US ship with CCS standard? The US Teslas come with a J1772-to-Tesla adapter so you can use L2 Chargers. There is a ChaDeMo-to-Teska adapter for $400. No idea why anyone would want this though, ChaDeMo is rare and, in my experience with my Leaf, often broken.
  - theshrike79 6y ago
    > There is a ChaDeMo-to-Teska adapter for $400. No idea why anyone would want this though, ChaDeMo is rare and, in my experience with my Leaf, often broken. ChDeMo is a better connection in some regards (can feed energy back to the grid for example), but they are a lot fiddlier than CCS and Type2, which are just huge chunks of thick plastic.
  - bildung 6y ago
    CCS is the international standard for EV charging: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System very common outside of the US, they are mandatory in Europe for example.
    - cptskippy 6y ago
      Yes, I'm confused by "Tesla Level 2 -> CCS"? Teslas outside of the US have shipped with CCS since early 2019. Older Teslas had the proprietary port. What is a "Tesla Level 2"? There exists an adapter to convert CCS to the proprietary Tesla connector but that's not L2.

by ReidZB 6y ago

vel0city 6y ago

You cannot charge any non-Tesla car from a Tesla connector. Tesla uses a proprietary connector and signaling protocol.

toomuchtodo 6y ago
This is not true. Tesla destination chargers [1] will charge non-Tesla vehicles with an adapter. I have this adapter [2], and my friend's Bolt charges from my home charger (a high power wall charger on a 100A circuit) when he's over for beers. It is true that the V3 version of the Tesla destination charger (which is relatively new), which has a microcontroller/wifi/etc, has a config flag you can set to only charge Tesla vehicles and can whitelist by VIN, but it's still in the very early stage of release. @vel0city: In response to your deleted reply to this comment, if legacy automakers want access to Tesla's supercharging network for their own EVs, they should be prepared to contribute towards the enormous capex costs Tesla incurred as well as the ongoing operational expenses. Otherwise, legacy automakers who made no material effort to transition to EVs are free riding off of Tesla's hard work to build the network they now desperately need to remain in business. [1] https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging https://www.tesla.com/destination-charging [2] https://smile.amazon.com/Lectron-Tesla-Charger-J1772-Adapter/dp/B07V7V2QT8 https://smile.amazon.com/Lectron-Tesla-Charger-J1772-Adapter...
- labcomputer 6y ago
  I think it was clear from context that the person you're replying to was talking about DC fast chargers, not L2 AC charging.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Words means things, and those were not the words in their comment. > You cannot charge any non-Tesla car from a Tesla connector
    - labcomputer 6y ago
      With the implied context > [...] at a Supercharger station. But I repeat myself.
      - Judgmentality 6y ago
        That wasn't implied to me. When people go out of their way to point out how what you said isn't what you meant to say, and you brush it off as "no no, it's you who don't understand my eloquent prose," you might want to consider taking the feedback as constructive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAuR5bkIlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAuR5bkIlQ
      - icefrakker 6y ago
        Weird how your ego can't acknowledge you misspoke.
      - kaishiro 6y ago
        Having followed this entire thread I did not assume this context either from what vel0city stated.
- vel0city 6y ago
  Sorry, I guess I spoke too broadly. I was intending for this to be about the Supercharger stations as that's what TFA was about. This adapter will not work for any of the Telsa Supercharger stations you'll commonly find around. They'll work for the smaller charging stations that private individuals will own, but you won't be able to use Tesla's charging network with this adapter. Buying Tesla is supporting vendor lock-in and proprietary standards instead of supporting open standards.
speedgoose 6y ago
In Europe they use the CCS-Type2 standard, but only authorize Tesla cars to charge.
- mahkeiro 6y ago
  It's almost certain that one brand charging station are going to be forbidden soon in Europe, as it is going to create a huge mess. Try to imagine if the gas station were only able to serve one brand...
  - speedgoose 6y ago
    Yes Tesla should open its chargers to everyone before they are forced to do so. I know some Tesla owners like the exclusivity but I think it will benefit the brand more to open the chargers.
    - esyir 6y ago
      I don't see how. "yes, we can now subsidise our competitors?"
      - vel0city 6y ago
        I mean, they can still charge the owners of non-Tesla cars. They should be operating the charging stations to sell charging, not to have an anti-competitive edge on the market.
      - speedgoose 6y ago
        If the experience at a Tesla charger is great, price is good, speed it good, you may be more interested into buying a Tesla. If Tesla chargers continue to be only exclusive to one brand and take so much space in the parking lots on the motorway, not as much. Ionity has a different pricing model for cars made by brands member of Ionity and other brands.
reissbaker 6y ago
Does the connector or signaling protocol really matter? I mean, Android and iOS both connect to other devices over standardized NFC, Bluetooth, WiFi, and mobile data network protocols, but good luck using an Apple Watch or Airpods or Airdrop with a Samsung phone. Your Samsung phone's text messages will never be shared onto your Macbook Pro's iMessage, and your iCloud backups will never be visible in your Google account. Standardized connectors don't mean anything if the vendor controls all sides of the software stack and wants the pieces to only work with that vendor's products. Tesla for better or for worse pursues Apple-like vertical integration to control the UX of every part of owning the car, from sales to nav to charging. While standardized connectors would be nice, it would mostly be nice for Tesla owners in that they wouldn't need a dongle to connect to public charging networks. (Maybe you're arguing that Tesla should be forced to provide Supercharger access at no additional cost to non-Tesla owners. I am not certain I agree with the "no additional cost" part, since Tesla had to shoulder the capital burden of building the network in the first place. But the connectors are the least important part of that anyway; non-Tesla owners could worst case use dongles, if Tesla were forced to provide access to the Supercharger network, just as Tesla owners use dongles to connect to public charging networks today. Dongles are stupid, yes, but they're less important than Tesla just providing access in the first place.) As far as home charging goes, personally I just use a standard 240V dryer outlet in my garage to charge; I plug the cord that came with my Model 3 into the outlet, and the other end of the cord (that has the proprietary connector) into the car. Any electric car would work with that setup, so the proprietary connector at the end of the cable doesn't impact me much; if I got a different electric car, I'm sure it would come with its own charging cable anyway that could be plugged into the 240V outlet.

jackson1442 6y ago

There is definitely a Tesla Level 2 -> CCS adapter, but no such luck for Superchargers. Not sure about Chademo, which is what a lot of the Leaf line uses.

cptskippy 6y ago
> Tesla Level 2 -> CCS A what now? I haven't seen anything CCS related in the US. Is that a European accessory? Don't all Teslas outside the US ship with CCS standard? The US Teslas come with a J1772-to-Tesla adapter so you can use L2 Chargers. There is a ChaDeMo-to-Teska adapter for $400. No idea why anyone would want this though, ChaDeMo is rare and, in my experience with my Leaf, often broken.
- theshrike79 6y ago
  > There is a ChaDeMo-to-Teska adapter for $400. No idea why anyone would want this though, ChaDeMo is rare and, in my experience with my Leaf, often broken. ChDeMo is a better connection in some regards (can feed energy back to the grid for example), but they are a lot fiddlier than CCS and Type2, which are just huge chunks of thick plastic.
- bildung 6y ago
  CCS is the international standard for EV charging: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System very common outside of the US, they are mandatory in Europe for example.
  - cptskippy 6y ago
    Yes, I'm confused by "Tesla Level 2 -> CCS"? Teslas outside of the US have shipped with CCS since early 2019. Older Teslas had the proprietary port. What is a "Tesla Level 2"? There exists an adapter to convert CCS to the proprietary Tesla connector but that's not L2.