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It’s a fascinating little story. Cant help but think that there is someone in the industry making the real money here and all the “soccer moms and nerds” are ju

It’s a fascinating little story. Cant help but think that there is someone in the industry making the real money here and all the “soccer moms and nerds” are just cover/dopes.

geogra4 6y ago
That's my sense too. There's gotta be some big muscle behind this.
52-6F-62 6y ago
Because that's usually how it goes. It appears that every bit of skepticism has been thrown out the window. I think a lot of people are about to get burned who expected riches. And all because of empty promises by anonymous message board users. It's disconcerting.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  Maybe I'm just a bad person but I don't feel much for people who get scammed due to their own greed.
  - 52-6F-62 6y ago
    I'm a little more ambivalent, myself. But I think I just don't like seeing it at all. If the entirety of the human were, functionally, a complex organism then the result of this sudden and energy-expensive outgrowth will likely be a sudden and intense immune response that will have effects beyond those directly involved.
  - eloff 6y ago
    Some valuable stock market lessons available at $300 a piece right now. Probably not going to end well, but they'll learn something from it.
    - nrmitchi 6y ago
      > but they'll learn something from it. Unfortunately, I disagree. I think there will be stories written for the next bit about the handful that make bank, very few stories written about the people who lose their shirts and end up with their financial life in ruins. When nonsense like this happens again, no one will remember the downside.
      - eloff 6y ago
        Everyone who loses their shirts will learn a lesson they'll never forget. Pain is the best teacher. The smart people learn from other people's pain.
    - Fjolsvith 6y ago
      Not hard to take your stimulus check and stick it to the man with it.
- berrynice 6y ago
  Alot of people don't care about riches, they just care about winning, they want revenge even if it'll cost them.
addicted 6y ago
There was a story yesterday (I'm not sure of its validity) that Citadel has paid for advance knowledge for Robin Hood stock transactions, so they are almost certainly making money on this. And unsurprisingly they've fronted money to at least 1 of the hedge funds on the wrong side of these trades. They're probably making bank. A couple of particular hedge funds will lose money. But what happens to the people who are carrying GME when this frenzy ends and no one is willing to buy GME at a $24Bn market cap valuation. They end up being the ones who paid for everyone else to "lose their shirts".
- mason55 6y ago
  > There was a story yesterday (I'm not sure of its validity) that Citadel has paid for advance knowledge for Robin Hood stock transactions That's a complete distortion of what's actually happening. If this were actually happening and people knew about it there would be absolute outrage. The truth is that Citadel is one of a few firms that pay Robinhood for the option to take the other side of trades. It's pretty innocuous but people get upset about it and turn it into "Citadel get advance knowledge of Robinhood trades". Citadel is in the business of making markets. Instead of taking a position on a stock, they just happily take the other side of most trades. They make their money by offering slightly below the "true" market price and in exchange they provide liquidity to the market so that you can sell your stock pretty much whenever you want. The idea is that most trades are pretty random and for each trade on one side you have a trade on the other side that balances it out and Citadel keeps the difference between the "true" price and what they pay/sell at. The problem is that sometimes lots of stock will be sold for a good reason (imagine someone finds out that there's an accounting fraud at some company). In this case, Citadel loses money because the trades don't balance out and the stock just goes down. From Citadel's perspective, traders on Robinhood are much more likely to be random people with no extra info (retail investors) and so they're willing to pay Robinhood to route the orders to them because it reduces the risk of adverse selection. In exchange, Citadel has to give a price that's at least equal to the best price in the market or else they're not allowed to fulfill the order.
  - deeeeplearning 6y ago
robjan 6y ago
HFT firms are making a killing on the volatility and order flow
lordnacho 6y ago
As an ex hedge fund / HFT options guy, I would be intrigued to know who is lending their stock out to be shorted. You'd think they have some incentive to stop lending them out, especially if the options are pushing the gamma so short that the sellers need to cover. If the options guys are needing to buy but nobody can sell, that would seem to be quite good for someone who is holding the stock. I'm not so sure about the soccer moms thing. The FT has a chart of how many small players there are, and although it's shot up it doesn't look huge to me. Seems to me the WSB crowd IS making money, but there's probably more institutions jumping on for a piece of meat too.
- deleted 6y ago
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- deleted 6y ago
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- mannykannot 6y ago
  Matt Levine said this a couple of days ago: "Bloomberg tells me that short interest is 71.2 million shares, while GameStop has only 69.7 million shares outstanding." (As he explained in a footnote, this does not necessarily imply massive naked shorting.) I don't know how things have changed since then. Maybe this morning would have been a good time for GameStop to issue more shares?
- wp381640 6y ago
  Chatter in the last 12 hours on discord and on the threads has been a lot about having holders call brokers to ask that their stocks not be lent out

It’s a fascinating little story. Cant help but think that there is someone in the industry making the real money here and all the “soccer moms and nerds” are just cover/dopes.

geogra4 6y ago

That's my sense too. There's gotta be some big muscle behind this.

52-6F-62 6y ago

Because that's usually how it goes. It appears that every bit of skepticism has been thrown out the window. I think a lot of people are about to get burned who expected riches. And all because of empty promises by anonymous message board users. It's disconcerting.

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
Maybe I'm just a bad person but I don't feel much for people who get scammed due to their own greed.
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  I'm a little more ambivalent, myself. But I think I just don't like seeing it at all. If the entirety of the human were, functionally, a complex organism then the result of this sudden and energy-expensive outgrowth will likely be a sudden and intense immune response that will have effects beyond those directly involved.
- eloff 6y ago
  Some valuable stock market lessons available at $300 a piece right now. Probably not going to end well, but they'll learn something from it.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    > but they'll learn something from it. Unfortunately, I disagree. I think there will be stories written for the next bit about the handful that make bank, very few stories written about the people who lose their shirts and end up with their financial life in ruins. When nonsense like this happens again, no one will remember the downside.
    - eloff 6y ago
      Everyone who loses their shirts will learn a lesson they'll never forget. Pain is the best teacher. The smart people learn from other people's pain.
  - Fjolsvith 6y ago
    Not hard to take your stimulus check and stick it to the man with it.
berrynice 6y ago
Alot of people don't care about riches, they just care about winning, they want revenge even if it'll cost them.

addicted 6y ago

There was a story yesterday (I'm not sure of its validity) that Citadel has paid for advance knowledge for Robin Hood stock transactions, so they are almost certainly making money on this. And unsurprisingly they've fronted money to at least 1 of the hedge funds on the wrong side of these trades. They're probably making bank. A couple of particular hedge funds will lose money. But what happens to the people who are carrying GME when this frenzy ends and no one is willing to buy GME at a $24Bn market cap valuation. They end up being the ones who paid for everyone else to "lose their shirts".

mason55 6y ago
> There was a story yesterday (I'm not sure of its validity) that Citadel has paid for advance knowledge for Robin Hood stock transactions That's a complete distortion of what's actually happening. If this were actually happening and people knew about it there would be absolute outrage. The truth is that Citadel is one of a few firms that pay Robinhood for the option to take the other side of trades. It's pretty innocuous but people get upset about it and turn it into "Citadel get advance knowledge of Robinhood trades". Citadel is in the business of making markets. Instead of taking a position on a stock, they just happily take the other side of most trades. They make their money by offering slightly below the "true" market price and in exchange they provide liquidity to the market so that you can sell your stock pretty much whenever you want. The idea is that most trades are pretty random and for each trade on one side you have a trade on the other side that balances it out and Citadel keeps the difference between the "true" price and what they pay/sell at. The problem is that sometimes lots of stock will be sold for a good reason (imagine someone finds out that there's an accounting fraud at some company). In this case, Citadel loses money because the trades don't balance out and the stock just goes down. From Citadel's perspective, traders on Robinhood are much more likely to be random people with no extra info (retail investors) and so they're willing to pay Robinhood to route the orders to them because it reduces the risk of adverse selection. In exchange, Citadel has to give a price that's at least equal to the best price in the market or else they're not allowed to fulfill the order.
- deeeeplearning 6y ago

robjan 6y ago

HFT firms are making a killing on the volatility and order flow

lordnacho 6y ago

As an ex hedge fund / HFT options guy, I would be intrigued to know who is lending their stock out to be shorted. You'd think they have some incentive to stop lending them out, especially if the options are pushing the gamma so short that the sellers need to cover. If the options guys are needing to buy but nobody can sell, that would seem to be quite good for someone who is holding the stock. I'm not so sure about the soccer moms thing. The FT has a chart of how many small players there are, and although it's shot up it doesn't look huge to me. Seems to me the WSB crowd IS making money, but there's probably more institutions jumping on for a piece of meat too.

deleted 6y ago
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deleted 6y ago
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mannykannot 6y ago
Matt Levine said this a couple of days ago: "Bloomberg tells me that short interest is 71.2 million shares, while GameStop has only 69.7 million shares outstanding." (As he explained in a footnote, this does not necessarily imply massive naked shorting.) I don't know how things have changed since then. Maybe this morning would have been a good time for GameStop to issue more shares?
wp381640 6y ago
Chatter in the last 12 hours on discord and on the threads has been a lot about having holders call brokers to ask that their stocks not be lent out