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This is great. It fills the same role as Twitter, but people's posts disappear after a few seconds, making it better than Twitter. I'm serious here. Twitter's

This is great. It fills the same role as Twitter, but people's posts disappear after a few seconds, making it better than Twitter. I'm serious here. Twitter's a cesspool filled with people venting about random crap. So is Ventscape. We all need to vent sometimes, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But the problem with Twitter is that it preserves and amplifies your venting until the end of time, which is the absolute worst thing to do with venting. Similar to the advice that when you're angry at someone you should write them an email, pour it all out and then delete that email instead of sending it. Sometimes we need to get stuff off of our chest but the insanity of the modern world is that once we do, it's archived and mined and maybe even used against us 15 years later. Ventscape solves that problem (conditional on its privacy and data retention policies I suppose...)

wingerlang 6y ago
Is that your only experience with Twitter? Twitter fills about a million more roles than venting. I don’t see any “cesspool” on my feed in fact.
- acje 6y ago
  It's a personalized echo chamber. YMMV
  - yreg 6y ago
    Following stuff that interests you is not an echo chamber.
    - HDMI_Cable 6y ago
      A machine learning algorithm then uses that stuff to recommend content which is similar. If one engages with opinionated stuff, then they'll only get recommended stuff that conforms to their original opinion, forming an echo chamber.
      - Tepix 6y ago
        You need to change the viewing setting to "latest first"
        gxnxcxcx 6y ago
        And, as far as I can understand, it will disengage itself from "latest first" as soon as it detects you are not addicted enough to not miss every new update with it engaged, thus having zero echo-cancelling powers.
        Tepix 6y ago
        It did that for a while, but in the last months it stopped doing that. I'm not even using it very frequently but it remains at "sort by date"
      - yreg 6y ago
        Imagine following some people who talk about houseplants. Maybe you like some tweets with the kind of information you consider of above-average usefulness for you. Maybe you praise someone for a beautiful pic of their monstera variegata. The algorithm decides to show you more high-quality tweets and prettier photos. If you consider that an echo chamber then all right, but I don't think it's a useful definition. Is going to a scifi-focused bookshop an echo chamber?
        konha 6y ago
        Maybe it’s because houseplants aren’t a controversial topic. Take any topic where people hold strong opinions (politics, religion, ...) and start following people you agree with. I guarantee you’ll have to very deliberately look for people on the other end of the spectrum at some point because your feed and your follow recommendations will indeed be an echo chamber.
        yreg 6y ago
        I agree, that's exactly my point — online communities might be (for sure often are) an echo chamber, but that depends on what content you subscribe to. Specifically on how opinionated-ness-y and on-topic that content is.
- apatters 6y ago
  My direct experience with Twitter is I have one dude's account bookmarked and I check it almost daily because he's a great source of local news. I have a profile but I haven't logged in or used it for a long time. My experience is fine. There sure seem to be a lot of people, though, who have the cesspool experience I mentioned. It's great that you and I don't have this experience with Twitter. It's also anecdotal and not really relevant to my comment which was about people who aren't you and me.
  - sitkack 6y ago
    I really think that people need to have an AI shield or body guard that monitors and controls ones access to media, to protect them from harmful concepts and behaviors. This might sound fantastical, and I understand the vastness of implications, but it will be viewed as no different than wearing sunglasses or mittens. We wear clothing and protect ourselves from the environment, the mental environment out there is unlike anything humans have ever come across. At some point, the weatherman will tell us about rates of state sponsored AI powered psyops campaigns across social media sites for the day.
    - thatguy0900 6y ago
      I forsee some problems with people being able to literally lock themselves in different realities in real life depending on their personal views
      - sitkack 6y ago
        We have that already, and we also have people that don't participate because it is too dangerous psychologically. At the lowest level, I am talking about even being able to watch a movie on Netflix and not be exposed to the most grotesque violence. Just black out the 36 frames of someone taking a hook through the eye. Or doing sentiment analysis on a thread and recommending that you not partake.
- ballenf 6y ago
  My experience is that there's a ton of value there, but the trending tab is like a siren call I can't resist even though I regret it almost every time. Usually I can't imagine why something is trending, click on it and lose ever more faith in humanity.
- swirepe 6y ago
  > I don’t see any “cesspool” on my feed in fact. You should file a bug report. Your feed should make you equal parts angry, sad, and horny.
EarthLaunch 6y ago
It's mined by the same agencies that monitor everything. So your venting is deleted for yourself, but preserved eternally for the people with power over you. I rather like it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
  > So your venting is deleted for yourself, but preserved eternally for the people with power over you. I rather like it. I love the phrasing. It instantly made me imagine those words being spoken by Lord Demiurge [0] (as voiced by Jeff Johnson [1]). [0] https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Demiurge https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Demiurge [1] https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/tv-shows/Overlord/Demiurge/#:~:text=Jeff%20Johnson%20is%20the%20English,Kato%20is%20the%20Japanese%20voice https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/tv-shows/Overlord/Demiu....
  - EarthLaunch 6y ago
    Thanks! I was going to say 'preserved forever for' but the double-'for' was awkward. Phrasing credit goes to fantasy author David Eddings, attitude to a C.S. Friedman character, Tarrant. Lord Demiurge has some interesting similarities! Searches show interesting Gnostic ideas about Demiurge being a lion-faced-serpent. How appropriate. I have trouble finding a sample of Jeff Johnson as Demiurge, though.
    - DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
      The specific clip I had in mind can be found in "Overlord" (English dub), season 3, episode 9, 20m25s - 20m50s ([0] and [1]). [0] https://www.hulu.com/watch/1657b4d2-49dd-450d-9a0f-aa2e1d45d31e https://www.hulu.com/watch/1657b4d2-49dd-450d-9a0f-aa2e1d45d... (requires subscription or free trial) [1] https://www.funimation.com/shows/overlord/war-of-words/uncut/?lang=english&qid= https://www.funimation.com/shows/overlord/war-of-words/uncut... (requires subscription)
mqrs 6y ago
Doesn't the fact that Twitter posts (mostly) stay incentivize conscientiousness, precisely because it doesn't take away the reality that words have consequences? It's still not an excellent representation of how forgiveness and personal development exists in the real world (i.e. we can forget about the details of what's been done in the past, but what we post stays in some database), but without the longevity of Twitter/FB posts, people just wouldn't think twice about what they're saying and this is a time when we do need more critical thinking.
- vermilingua 6y ago
  Does it really seem to you that Twitter incentivizes conscientiousness?
- alpaca128 6y ago
  > without the longevity of Twitter/FB posts, people just wouldn't think twice about what they're saying You clearly have not yet witnessed the bad parts of Facebook and Twitter. I've seen people calling for genocide on Facebook under their real name and that's not even remotely the worst. Facebook's content moderation teams are basically getting PTSD[0] by default as they enforce rules that specify under what circumstances photos of things like animal abuse or decapitation are acceptable(!). The assumption that people behave normally on the internet when they're not anonymous is provably false. You might think that intuitively, but that's because you're a decent person. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/facebook-content-moderators-expose-disturbing-working-conditions.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/facebook-content-moderators-...
  - mqrs 6y ago
    I mean, I didn’t sleep through 2016 onwards but people threatening violence still get banned, people with bigoted views still get called out or damage their real-world offline relationships, and it’s possible that there’d be even less people who’d be mindful of what they say without those feedback mechanisms.
    - alpaca128 6y ago
skinkestek 6y ago
> This is great. It fills the same role as Twitter, but people's posts disappear after a few seconds, making it better than Twitter. Also like Jodel it is anonymous[1], which is a good thing whenever possible as has become obvious lately. [1]: wrt other users. Random nutjobs of all shapes cannot easily find you and nobody can verify if Jodel have really banned someone so they can to a larger degree do what they think is correct instead of what the mob demands. Threaten someone however and police will have your adress shortly, - Jodel is not an alternative to Signal or Matrix.
- baxtr 6y ago
  Somehow similar to HN isn’t it?
  - waheoo 6y ago
    Was gonna say that's what I use HN for, I got disenfranchised with the industry and everyone in it a few years ago, now I just troll and call it how it is. If I don't get downvotes I something is wrong.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      Pedant's note: ITYM 'disenchanted'. To be disenfranchised is to be rendered unable to vote, or more broadly to be stripped of some otherwise customary access to a measure of power or agency. To be disenchanted is to lose a fascination with something, in typical usage as a response to some event or sequence of events that places the object of disenchantment in a new and less favorable light.
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    Kind of, but anonymous instead of pseudonymous and also (kind of) ephemeral.
- everybodyknows 6y ago
  > Threaten someone however and police will have your adress shortly. Impugn someone who’s well lawyered-up, and your contact info may be demanded by a order pursuant to a lawsuit for defamation, yes?

wingerlang 6y ago

Is that your only experience with Twitter? Twitter fills about a million more roles than venting. I don’t see any “cesspool” on my feed in fact.

acje 6y ago
It's a personalized echo chamber. YMMV
- yreg 6y ago
  Following stuff that interests you is not an echo chamber.
  - HDMI_Cable 6y ago
    A machine learning algorithm then uses that stuff to recommend content which is similar. If one engages with opinionated stuff, then they'll only get recommended stuff that conforms to their original opinion, forming an echo chamber.
    - Tepix 6y ago
      You need to change the viewing setting to "latest first"
      - gxnxcxcx 6y ago
        And, as far as I can understand, it will disengage itself from "latest first" as soon as it detects you are not addicted enough to not miss every new update with it engaged, thus having zero echo-cancelling powers.
        Tepix 6y ago
        It did that for a while, but in the last months it stopped doing that. I'm not even using it very frequently but it remains at "sort by date"
    - yreg 6y ago
      Imagine following some people who talk about houseplants. Maybe you like some tweets with the kind of information you consider of above-average usefulness for you. Maybe you praise someone for a beautiful pic of their monstera variegata. The algorithm decides to show you more high-quality tweets and prettier photos. If you consider that an echo chamber then all right, but I don't think it's a useful definition. Is going to a scifi-focused bookshop an echo chamber?
      - konha 6y ago
        Maybe it’s because houseplants aren’t a controversial topic. Take any topic where people hold strong opinions (politics, religion, ...) and start following people you agree with. I guarantee you’ll have to very deliberately look for people on the other end of the spectrum at some point because your feed and your follow recommendations will indeed be an echo chamber.
        yreg 6y ago
        I agree, that's exactly my point — online communities might be (for sure often are) an echo chamber, but that depends on what content you subscribe to. Specifically on how opinionated-ness-y and on-topic that content is.
apatters 6y ago
My direct experience with Twitter is I have one dude's account bookmarked and I check it almost daily because he's a great source of local news. I have a profile but I haven't logged in or used it for a long time. My experience is fine. There sure seem to be a lot of people, though, who have the cesspool experience I mentioned. It's great that you and I don't have this experience with Twitter. It's also anecdotal and not really relevant to my comment which was about people who aren't you and me.
- sitkack 6y ago
  I really think that people need to have an AI shield or body guard that monitors and controls ones access to media, to protect them from harmful concepts and behaviors. This might sound fantastical, and I understand the vastness of implications, but it will be viewed as no different than wearing sunglasses or mittens. We wear clothing and protect ourselves from the environment, the mental environment out there is unlike anything humans have ever come across. At some point, the weatherman will tell us about rates of state sponsored AI powered psyops campaigns across social media sites for the day.
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    I forsee some problems with people being able to literally lock themselves in different realities in real life depending on their personal views
    - sitkack 6y ago
      We have that already, and we also have people that don't participate because it is too dangerous psychologically. At the lowest level, I am talking about even being able to watch a movie on Netflix and not be exposed to the most grotesque violence. Just black out the 36 frames of someone taking a hook through the eye. Or doing sentiment analysis on a thread and recommending that you not partake.
ballenf 6y ago
My experience is that there's a ton of value there, but the trending tab is like a siren call I can't resist even though I regret it almost every time. Usually I can't imagine why something is trending, click on it and lose ever more faith in humanity.
swirepe 6y ago
> I don’t see any “cesspool” on my feed in fact. You should file a bug report. Your feed should make you equal parts angry, sad, and horny.

EarthLaunch 6y ago

It's mined by the same agencies that monitor everything. So your venting is deleted for yourself, but preserved eternally for the people with power over you. I rather like it.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
> So your venting is deleted for yourself, but preserved eternally for the people with power over you. I rather like it. I love the phrasing. It instantly made me imagine those words being spoken by Lord Demiurge [0] (as voiced by Jeff Johnson [1]). [0] https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Demiurge https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Demiurge [1] https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/tv-shows/Overlord/Demiurge/#:~:text=Jeff%20Johnson%20is%20the%20English,Kato%20is%20the%20Japanese%20voice https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/tv-shows/Overlord/Demiu....
- EarthLaunch 6y ago
  Thanks! I was going to say 'preserved forever for' but the double-'for' was awkward. Phrasing credit goes to fantasy author David Eddings, attitude to a C.S. Friedman character, Tarrant. Lord Demiurge has some interesting similarities! Searches show interesting Gnostic ideas about Demiurge being a lion-faced-serpent. How appropriate. I have trouble finding a sample of Jeff Johnson as Demiurge, though.
  - DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
    The specific clip I had in mind can be found in "Overlord" (English dub), season 3, episode 9, 20m25s - 20m50s ([0] and [1]). [0] https://www.hulu.com/watch/1657b4d2-49dd-450d-9a0f-aa2e1d45d31e https://www.hulu.com/watch/1657b4d2-49dd-450d-9a0f-aa2e1d45d... (requires subscription or free trial) [1] https://www.funimation.com/shows/overlord/war-of-words/uncut/?lang=english&qid= https://www.funimation.com/shows/overlord/war-of-words/uncut... (requires subscription)

mqrs 6y ago

Doesn't the fact that Twitter posts (mostly) stay incentivize conscientiousness, precisely because it doesn't take away the reality that words have consequences? It's still not an excellent representation of how forgiveness and personal development exists in the real world (i.e. we can forget about the details of what's been done in the past, but what we post stays in some database), but without the longevity of Twitter/FB posts, people just wouldn't think twice about what they're saying and this is a time when we do need more critical thinking.

vermilingua 6y ago
Does it really seem to you that Twitter incentivizes conscientiousness?
alpaca128 6y ago
> without the longevity of Twitter/FB posts, people just wouldn't think twice about what they're saying You clearly have not yet witnessed the bad parts of Facebook and Twitter. I've seen people calling for genocide on Facebook under their real name and that's not even remotely the worst. Facebook's content moderation teams are basically getting PTSD[0] by default as they enforce rules that specify under what circumstances photos of things like animal abuse or decapitation are acceptable(!). The assumption that people behave normally on the internet when they're not anonymous is provably false. You might think that intuitively, but that's because you're a decent person. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/facebook-content-moderators-expose-disturbing-working-conditions.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/19/facebook-content-moderators-...
- mqrs 6y ago
  I mean, I didn’t sleep through 2016 onwards but people threatening violence still get banned, people with bigoted views still get called out or damage their real-world offline relationships, and it’s possible that there’d be even less people who’d be mindful of what they say without those feedback mechanisms.
  - alpaca128 6y ago

skinkestek 6y ago

> This is great. It fills the same role as Twitter, but people's posts disappear after a few seconds, making it better than Twitter. Also like Jodel it is anonymous[1], which is a good thing whenever possible as has become obvious lately. [1]: wrt other users. Random nutjobs of all shapes cannot easily find you and nobody can verify if Jodel have really banned someone so they can to a larger degree do what they think is correct instead of what the mob demands. Threaten someone however and police will have your adress shortly, - Jodel is not an alternative to Signal or Matrix.

baxtr 6y ago
Somehow similar to HN isn’t it?
- waheoo 6y ago
  Was gonna say that's what I use HN for, I got disenfranchised with the industry and everyone in it a few years ago, now I just troll and call it how it is. If I don't get downvotes I something is wrong.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    Pedant's note: ITYM 'disenchanted'. To be disenfranchised is to be rendered unable to vote, or more broadly to be stripped of some otherwise customary access to a measure of power or agency. To be disenchanted is to lose a fascination with something, in typical usage as a response to some event or sequence of events that places the object of disenchantment in a new and less favorable light.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  Kind of, but anonymous instead of pseudonymous and also (kind of) ephemeral.
everybodyknows 6y ago
> Threaten someone however and police will have your adress shortly. Impugn someone who’s well lawyered-up, and your contact info may be demanded by a order pursuant to a lawsuit for defamation, yes?