19 ms·

What It Feels Like to Fly an A-10 Warthog

34 points by rfreytag 6y ago

simonebrunozzi 6y ago
I'm not into airplanes much, but I've long been fascinated by the engineering awesomeness of the A-10 plane. There's tons of videos online that show many aspects of it. I'd love to have an opportunity to fly one, even though I don't know how to fly planes :(
- rkangel 6y ago
  What appeals to me about the A-10 is that it is 'focused' design. It is designed around a single use case (around a single weapon really), and everything is to that single end. This makes it incredibly good at that single job, and as long as that purpose still exists (and close air support is likely to continue to be needed) the A-10 will continue to be in demand.
- neverartful 6y ago
  I too would love to fly one and I'm not a pilot of any kind! Not only aren't civilians permitted (to the best of my knowledge) to fly military aircraft, there are no 2-seater A-10s. This means that your first time flying it, you're doing it solo.
  - ckozlowski 6y ago
    This is more to draw attention to an unusual fact than any desire to "correct" you, but a single two-seater was built: http://www.airvectors.net/ava10_1.html#m7 http://www.airvectors.net/ava10_1.html#m7 It was a single prototype. One of my minor claims to fame in life is that I worked with a guy who was a test pilot, and actually flew in this aircraft. Of course, your larger point stands however, and general there's no "type conversion" craft like you see in other two-seaters for this purpose. That said, if you had a solid flight background in other types of aircraft, it'd be unlikely that you'd have issues in the A-10. It's reportedly an easy craft to fly, there's little peculiarities that would give a pilot issues like you see in some high-performance craft. Straight wing, low landing speed, no built-in aerodynamic instabilities or anything like that.
    - neverartful 6y ago
      Awesome! Thanks for the correction! I think it would still be a true statement to say that 99.9% of A-10 pilots have their first flight in a one-seater flying solo.
standardUser 6y ago
I imagine the feeling varies based on how many brown lives you end with each pass.
- tyingq 6y ago
  Using anti armor rounds on people does feel brutal. Here's the size of the ammo in the main gun: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/6e/43/776e4327ed11dddd0428ebb4037e8064.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/6e/43/776e4327ed11dddd0428...
  - KMag 6y ago
    When we were kids, my brother bought a spent 30 mm GAU-8A bullet and kept it around on his desk. Were all of the rounds depleted uranium? We knew it could be DU, but didn't have a scintillation counter, and didn't bother to measure its density. He just kept it far from his bed and his food. I know solid uranium metal isn't so bad, and armor piercing shells typically have a tungsten or DU core covered with lead (if nothing else, to keep the super hard core from abrading the barrel). It must have been solid lead, or lead jacketed tungsten, right? My brother has 4 perfectly healthy kids, but I could imagine some kid keeping a DU shell in his/her pocket, in close proximity to their gametes for years.
    - robscallsign 6y ago
      No, likely an inert steel round used in training
- fulafel 6y ago
  And how much meth ("go pills") you were on.
tyingq 6y ago
Pictures of A10's that made it back home despite heavy damage are interesting. The cockpit is surrounded by a titanium bathtub, so the pilot is fairly well protected, and there's a theme of armor in the right places and simplicity/redundancy all around. This story is pretty interesting: https://www.military.com/air-force/air-force-pilot-landed-damaged-10-warthog-using-only-cranks-and-cables.html https://www.military.com/air-force/air-force-pilot-landed-da...
- rjsw 6y ago
  I would rather fly a plane that doesn't get hit, the A-10 is obsolete.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    I suspect it will be drones that eventually replace it, rather than another manned aircraft.
    - rjsw 6y ago
      The F-16 was better at doing the kind of missions in Iraq that lead to the damage in your linked article.
      - tyingq 6y ago
        I don't feel like the F-16 is particularly great for close air support. Fighters are better for the A-10's original role as a tank killer, but that hasn't really been its role for some time now.
        rjsw 6y ago
        Modern close air support means dropping smart bombs from high altitude, to do this you need to be able to quickly get to the right place, the A-10 is too slow to be able to do this. One of the most effective bomb trucks is the B-1B.
gadders 6y ago
That has got to be one of the most horrifically ad-heavy pages I have looked at in a long time.
- Digit-Al 6y ago
  When I read this I thought "funny, I didn't notice any ads at all". So I reloaded it and checked the protections dashboard (using Firefox with Enhanced Protection turned on): 52,449 blocked! WTF?
temp0826 6y ago
It’s more of a flying-high-caliber-machine-gun than a plane if we’re being honest
- tyingq 6y ago
  A good picture to help visualize that: https://i.insider.com/579a52aa88e4a79f178bb61a?width=1200&format=jpeg https://i.insider.com/579a52aa88e4a79f178bb61a?width=1200&fo...
  - BitwiseFool 6y ago
    That's incredible. I can never look at the A-10 the same way again.
trasz 6y ago
Might be worth mentioning there's DCS (https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/warthog/ https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/warthog/), a highly realistic simulator that includes A-10C.
hesdeadjim 6y ago
I struggle with duality around this. I loved the plane growing up, but at this point in my life I can't hear "the gun is f'n awesome when you fire it" without thinking about the lives it's ending doing so.
- secfirstmd 6y ago
  Unfortunately the US fetishness about the A-10 gun (esp when Maverick and others were much more effective) also likely caused significant long lasting cancerous effects in the areas it was used because of the depleted Uranium.
  - ckozlowski 6y ago
    I'd like to see the sources for this. There was a lot of focus on DU at times, especially with regards to Gulf War Syndrome (perhaps because of the "uranium" being in the name) but I believe most of the focus has now shifted elsewhere, particularly with regards to the anti-chemical and anti-biological mixes soldiers were given in the run up to the invasion. I can't find many of the articles I've read on this over the years, but Wikipedia has a decent summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome#Causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome#Causes The thing with DU and what ended up ruling it out as much of an exposure factor is that it is extremely heavy. Particulates of it don't travel far. They sink, fall short, etc. They don't waft around in air or get suspended in water like some compounds do. I don't think anyone would suggest that you ingest the stuff, but from what I'd read, the extreme weight of the stuff kept it localized and unlikely to be ingested or exposed to in any amounts that would cause wide issues. That there were other factors that could cause these effects I don't dispute. But it was my understanding that it was determined that it was concluded DU wasn't one of them.
    - secfirstmd 6y ago
      Environmental pollution by depleted uranium in Iraq with special reference to Mosul and possible effects on cancer and birth defect rates. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130521105557.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130521105557.h...
neverartful 6y ago
If you'd like to read a true story about A-10s providing close air support to save a group of Marines, I recommend the following article: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-two-a-10-pilots-saved-a-group-of-marines-who-were-c-1806510162 https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-two-a-10-pilots-saved-...
throwawaygimp 6y ago
I'm sure this will be buried etc, but just something to pass on. I spend a lot of time in small planes doing aerial surveying work with equipment I make. The pilot i've flown with the most spent his whole career flying and training others to fly A-10s. We had so much time (100's of hours) just sitting in a cessna together I got to ask tons of questions and hear lots of stories. One of my favourites was just peacetime stuff when they flew non-stop from their base in Germany back to the US, refueling on the way. Just think about that - you're a pilot used to doing close air support short missions and now you're off on what in only a few decades before would have been an adventure on the scale of the great explorers. He would regularily comment on how good the missile launch system is... essentially it chose the right time to launch based on the pitch/speed/location etc of the plane. He mentioned it enough times it must have been pretty special. When I asked him if it was difficult to fly, he said that other jets he flew were more difficult (flame outs etc), but it also wasn't easy. In 30 years flying them the only missile he ever launched (or maybe only missile of a certain type... not sure), was for training and cost $1m+. Everyone at some point in their training got to fire one at a dummy tank. He said the accuracy was amazing... he hit it bang on - mostly due to the targetting tech he was praising rather than his skill. He did mention that the $1m price tag was misleading because they expire and use missiles which if not used would be scrapped anyway. Or something close to that - this was 4-5 years ago my memory is a little hazy. And the gun. Well... this guy is a republican voter (which was always funny as I'm way left of Sanders), with a heart of gold but had some interesting theories about the best use of the A10 related to Trumps border wall. He said they do so much shooting out in the desert, they could just relocate all their practice along the border with mexico, not spend anything extra than they are now and no one would dare go near it. I'm not sure how much of that was in jest or how serious he was. Thats abhorrent to me but all good we all get to have our views. He has a model of an A10 on his desk which was gifted to him when he stopped flying them, and a big picture of himself climbing into one on the wall back when he was lean and handsome and hadn't put on his old-timer weight. My first flight simulator was A-10 on the Commodore 64, and it literally set the path to me ending up working with him.... my interest in aviation, cameras, computers etc. So both that photo and the model on his desk felt really special to me in a way that I can't really explain. And of course being a nieve computer guy, I had to ask 'the question'. Did he knowingly kill anyone. He didn't answer.
zeroc8 6y ago
I love airplanes and certainly would jump on the opportunity to fly a military jet. What I cannot understand however is how people - lots of them Christians - can get so excited about firing a huge gun at other people...
- 4gotunameagain 6y ago
  I imagine that decades of brainwashing in the military can change a lot of views

34 points by rfreytag 6y ago

I'm not into airplanes much, but I've long been fascinated by the engineering awesomeness of the A-10 plane. There's tons of videos online that show many aspects of it. I'd love to have an opportunity to fly one, even though I don't know how to fly planes :(

rkangel 6y ago
What appeals to me about the A-10 is that it is 'focused' design. It is designed around a single use case (around a single weapon really), and everything is to that single end. This makes it incredibly good at that single job, and as long as that purpose still exists (and close air support is likely to continue to be needed) the A-10 will continue to be in demand.
neverartful 6y ago
I too would love to fly one and I'm not a pilot of any kind! Not only aren't civilians permitted (to the best of my knowledge) to fly military aircraft, there are no 2-seater A-10s. This means that your first time flying it, you're doing it solo.
- ckozlowski 6y ago
  This is more to draw attention to an unusual fact than any desire to "correct" you, but a single two-seater was built: http://www.airvectors.net/ava10_1.html#m7 http://www.airvectors.net/ava10_1.html#m7 It was a single prototype. One of my minor claims to fame in life is that I worked with a guy who was a test pilot, and actually flew in this aircraft. Of course, your larger point stands however, and general there's no "type conversion" craft like you see in other two-seaters for this purpose. That said, if you had a solid flight background in other types of aircraft, it'd be unlikely that you'd have issues in the A-10. It's reportedly an easy craft to fly, there's little peculiarities that would give a pilot issues like you see in some high-performance craft. Straight wing, low landing speed, no built-in aerodynamic instabilities or anything like that.
  - neverartful 6y ago
    Awesome! Thanks for the correction! I think it would still be a true statement to say that 99.9% of A-10 pilots have their first flight in a one-seater flying solo.

standardUser 6y ago

I imagine the feeling varies based on how many brown lives you end with each pass.

tyingq 6y ago
Using anti armor rounds on people does feel brutal. Here's the size of the ammo in the main gun: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/6e/43/776e4327ed11dddd0428ebb4037e8064.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/77/6e/43/776e4327ed11dddd0428...
- KMag 6y ago
  When we were kids, my brother bought a spent 30 mm GAU-8A bullet and kept it around on his desk. Were all of the rounds depleted uranium? We knew it could be DU, but didn't have a scintillation counter, and didn't bother to measure its density. He just kept it far from his bed and his food. I know solid uranium metal isn't so bad, and armor piercing shells typically have a tungsten or DU core covered with lead (if nothing else, to keep the super hard core from abrading the barrel). It must have been solid lead, or lead jacketed tungsten, right? My brother has 4 perfectly healthy kids, but I could imagine some kid keeping a DU shell in his/her pocket, in close proximity to their gametes for years.
  - robscallsign 6y ago
    No, likely an inert steel round used in training
fulafel 6y ago
And how much meth ("go pills") you were on.

tyingq 6y ago

Pictures of A10's that made it back home despite heavy damage are interesting. The cockpit is surrounded by a titanium bathtub, so the pilot is fairly well protected, and there's a theme of armor in the right places and simplicity/redundancy all around. This story is pretty interesting: https://www.military.com/air-force/air-force-pilot-landed-damaged-10-warthog-using-only-cranks-and-cables.html https://www.military.com/air-force/air-force-pilot-landed-da...

rjsw 6y ago
I would rather fly a plane that doesn't get hit, the A-10 is obsolete.
- tyingq 6y ago
  I suspect it will be drones that eventually replace it, rather than another manned aircraft.
  - rjsw 6y ago
    The F-16 was better at doing the kind of missions in Iraq that lead to the damage in your linked article.
    - tyingq 6y ago
      I don't feel like the F-16 is particularly great for close air support. Fighters are better for the A-10's original role as a tank killer, but that hasn't really been its role for some time now.
      - rjsw 6y ago
        Modern close air support means dropping smart bombs from high altitude, to do this you need to be able to quickly get to the right place, the A-10 is too slow to be able to do this. One of the most effective bomb trucks is the B-1B.

gadders 6y ago

That has got to be one of the most horrifically ad-heavy pages I have looked at in a long time.

Digit-Al 6y ago
When I read this I thought "funny, I didn't notice any ads at all". So I reloaded it and checked the protections dashboard (using Firefox with Enhanced Protection turned on): 52,449 blocked! WTF?

temp0826 6y ago

It’s more of a flying-high-caliber-machine-gun than a plane if we’re being honest

tyingq 6y ago
A good picture to help visualize that: https://i.insider.com/579a52aa88e4a79f178bb61a?width=1200&format=jpeg https://i.insider.com/579a52aa88e4a79f178bb61a?width=1200&fo...
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  That's incredible. I can never look at the A-10 the same way again.

trasz 6y ago

Might be worth mentioning there's DCS (https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/warthog/ https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/warthog/), a highly realistic simulator that includes A-10C.

hesdeadjim 6y ago

I struggle with duality around this. I loved the plane growing up, but at this point in my life I can't hear "the gun is f'n awesome when you fire it" without thinking about the lives it's ending doing so.

secfirstmd 6y ago
Unfortunately the US fetishness about the A-10 gun (esp when Maverick and others were much more effective) also likely caused significant long lasting cancerous effects in the areas it was used because of the depleted Uranium.
- ckozlowski 6y ago
  I'd like to see the sources for this. There was a lot of focus on DU at times, especially with regards to Gulf War Syndrome (perhaps because of the "uranium" being in the name) but I believe most of the focus has now shifted elsewhere, particularly with regards to the anti-chemical and anti-biological mixes soldiers were given in the run up to the invasion. I can't find many of the articles I've read on this over the years, but Wikipedia has a decent summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome#Causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome#Causes The thing with DU and what ended up ruling it out as much of an exposure factor is that it is extremely heavy. Particulates of it don't travel far. They sink, fall short, etc. They don't waft around in air or get suspended in water like some compounds do. I don't think anyone would suggest that you ingest the stuff, but from what I'd read, the extreme weight of the stuff kept it localized and unlikely to be ingested or exposed to in any amounts that would cause wide issues. That there were other factors that could cause these effects I don't dispute. But it was my understanding that it was determined that it was concluded DU wasn't one of them.
  - secfirstmd 6y ago
    Environmental pollution by depleted uranium in Iraq with special reference to Mosul and possible effects on cancer and birth defect rates. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130521105557.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/05/130521105557.h...

neverartful 6y ago

If you'd like to read a true story about A-10s providing close air support to save a group of Marines, I recommend the following article: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-two-a-10-pilots-saved-a-group-of-marines-who-were-c-1806510162 https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-two-a-10-pilots-saved-...

throwawaygimp 6y ago

I'm sure this will be buried etc, but just something to pass on. I spend a lot of time in small planes doing aerial surveying work with equipment I make. The pilot i've flown with the most spent his whole career flying and training others to fly A-10s. We had so much time (100's of hours) just sitting in a cessna together I got to ask tons of questions and hear lots of stories. One of my favourites was just peacetime stuff when they flew non-stop from their base in Germany back to the US, refueling on the way. Just think about that - you're a pilot used to doing close air support short missions and now you're off on what in only a few decades before would have been an adventure on the scale of the great explorers. He would regularily comment on how good the missile launch system is... essentially it chose the right time to launch based on the pitch/speed/location etc of the plane. He mentioned it enough times it must have been pretty special. When I asked him if it was difficult to fly, he said that other jets he flew were more difficult (flame outs etc), but it also wasn't easy. In 30 years flying them the only missile he ever launched (or maybe only missile of a certain type... not sure), was for training and cost $1m+. Everyone at some point in their training got to fire one at a dummy tank. He said the accuracy was amazing... he hit it bang on - mostly due to the targetting tech he was praising rather than his skill. He did mention that the $1m price tag was misleading because they expire and use missiles which if not used would be scrapped anyway. Or something close to that - this was 4-5 years ago my memory is a little hazy. And the gun. Well... this guy is a republican voter (which was always funny as I'm way left of Sanders), with a heart of gold but had some interesting theories about the best use of the A10 related to Trumps border wall. He said they do so much shooting out in the desert, they could just relocate all their practice along the border with mexico, not spend anything extra than they are now and no one would dare go near it. I'm not sure how much of that was in jest or how serious he was. Thats abhorrent to me but all good we all get to have our views. He has a model of an A10 on his desk which was gifted to him when he stopped flying them, and a big picture of himself climbing into one on the wall back when he was lean and handsome and hadn't put on his old-timer weight. My first flight simulator was A-10 on the Commodore 64, and it literally set the path to me ending up working with him.... my interest in aviation, cameras, computers etc. So both that photo and the model on his desk felt really special to me in a way that I can't really explain. And of course being a nieve computer guy, I had to ask 'the question'. Did he knowingly kill anyone. He didn't answer.

zeroc8 6y ago

I love airplanes and certainly would jump on the opportunity to fly a military jet. What I cannot understand however is how people - lots of them Christians - can get so excited about firing a huge gun at other people...

4gotunameagain 6y ago
I imagine that decades of brainwashing in the military can change a lot of views