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I'm not saying that there aren't other good examples. But, to target a US journalist like this, at a foreign embassy where there are recordings, logs of people

I'm not saying that there aren't other good examples. But, to target a US journalist like this, at a foreign embassy where there are recordings, logs of people entering and leaving (with visitor logs) where you could conceivably find those responsible and run it up the chain for accountabiliity is the rare element here that could and should be used. If we actually start to make an example here, that this is not acceptable in our society, then perhaps others will feel less emboldened to do the same.

sandworm101 6y ago
>> this is not acceptable in our society World society? American society? Turkish society? Or Saudi society? All apply, some more so than others, depending on which aspects of the incident one feels more relevant. The suppression, exile or even disappearance of dissidents is not universally condemned.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  In any of those societies. There's no country in the world except maybe North Korea where this kind of behavior is generally seen as acceptable; even in Saudi Arabia, the government officially disapproved and tried the people who did it for murder.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    > even in Saudi Arabia, the government officially disapproved and tried the people who did it for murder. So that it could save MBS's ass when his people questioned why the rest of the world was hating on him. A lot of people in Saudi Arabia were shocked by the gruesome nature of the murder (which American media deftly used to sling shit on them, since Khashoggi was one of their own). If Khashoggi was some ordinary low profile Saudi citizen, and not distantly related to the Royal family and being from a wealthy family himself, his death would have been pretty routine in Saudi Arabia. It's an open secret that Prince Bonesaw ordered the killing, and that the later execution was a farce. Even then, I suspect the execution was disposal for a sloppy job.
- toiletfuneral 6y ago
  Is this comment seriously doing moral relativism about state assassination of journalists? lmao
cronix 6y ago
Here's a good example, but from America. I find it especially abhorrent when an American President orders the killing of American citizens (at least 1 directly ordered with several other "unintended" murders) on foreign soil without their guaranteed 5th Amendment trial, which states, in part, "that no one shall be "deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law." > Since 2009, the United States, in the conduct of U.S. counterterrorism operations against al-Qa’ida and its associated forces outside of areas of active hostilities, has specifically targeted and killed one U.S. citizen, Anwar al-Aulaqi. The United States is further aware of three other U.S. citizens who have been killed in such U.S. counterterrorism operations over that same time period: Samir Khan, ‘Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi, and Jude Kenan Mohammed. These individuals were not specifically targeted by the United States. -Attorney General Eric Holder, May 22, 2013 https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/19/kesha-rogers/four-us-citizens-killed-obama-drone-strikes-3-were/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/19/kesha-roge...
- purephase 6y ago
  I'm in agreement for sure, extra judicial killing of any kind is questionable. I think we should review all of them and hold those responsible for their actions. However, drone strikes have "collatoral damage" and unintended side effects like this (not saying this makes them good and they should continue) especially when they're deployed in areas openly holding people who are in active conflict against people in their own countries and there is military deployed. Again, this doesn't make it right. There's a big difference between that and a lone citizen applying for a marriage VISA, in another country entirely, being kidnapped and murdered due to his writing against the regime. And, due to the nature of the relationship between the US and SA it has been nearly covered up.
Rapzid 6y ago
I agree. The details of the killing itself while shocking aren't the most shocking aspect of this. The most shocking aspects were the context(US resident, WAPO journalist, how blatant it was) and how we witnessed our government wipe MBSs ass with our values. In slow motion. We knew EXACTLY what was going on, how disgusting it was, and it unfolded anyway; nobody could stop it.

sandworm101 6y ago

>> this is not acceptable in our society World society? American society? Turkish society? Or Saudi society? All apply, some more so than others, depending on which aspects of the incident one feels more relevant. The suppression, exile or even disappearance of dissidents is not universally condemned.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
In any of those societies. There's no country in the world except maybe North Korea where this kind of behavior is generally seen as acceptable; even in Saudi Arabia, the government officially disapproved and tried the people who did it for murder.
- fakedang 6y ago
  > even in Saudi Arabia, the government officially disapproved and tried the people who did it for murder. So that it could save MBS's ass when his people questioned why the rest of the world was hating on him. A lot of people in Saudi Arabia were shocked by the gruesome nature of the murder (which American media deftly used to sling shit on them, since Khashoggi was one of their own). If Khashoggi was some ordinary low profile Saudi citizen, and not distantly related to the Royal family and being from a wealthy family himself, his death would have been pretty routine in Saudi Arabia. It's an open secret that Prince Bonesaw ordered the killing, and that the later execution was a farce. Even then, I suspect the execution was disposal for a sloppy job.
toiletfuneral 6y ago
Is this comment seriously doing moral relativism about state assassination of journalists? lmao

cronix 6y ago

Here's a good example, but from America. I find it especially abhorrent when an American President orders the killing of American citizens (at least 1 directly ordered with several other "unintended" murders) on foreign soil without their guaranteed 5th Amendment trial, which states, in part, "that no one shall be "deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law." > Since 2009, the United States, in the conduct of U.S. counterterrorism operations against al-Qa’ida and its associated forces outside of areas of active hostilities, has specifically targeted and killed one U.S. citizen, Anwar al-Aulaqi. The United States is further aware of three other U.S. citizens who have been killed in such U.S. counterterrorism operations over that same time period: Samir Khan, ‘Abd al-Rahman Anwar al-Aulaqi, and Jude Kenan Mohammed. These individuals were not specifically targeted by the United States. -Attorney General Eric Holder, May 22, 2013 https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/19/kesha-rogers/four-us-citizens-killed-obama-drone-strikes-3-were/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/19/kesha-roge...

purephase 6y ago
I'm in agreement for sure, extra judicial killing of any kind is questionable. I think we should review all of them and hold those responsible for their actions. However, drone strikes have "collatoral damage" and unintended side effects like this (not saying this makes them good and they should continue) especially when they're deployed in areas openly holding people who are in active conflict against people in their own countries and there is military deployed. Again, this doesn't make it right. There's a big difference between that and a lone citizen applying for a marriage VISA, in another country entirely, being kidnapped and murdered due to his writing against the regime. And, due to the nature of the relationship between the US and SA it has been nearly covered up.

Rapzid 6y ago

I agree. The details of the killing itself while shocking aren't the most shocking aspect of this. The most shocking aspects were the context(US resident, WAPO journalist, how blatant it was) and how we witnessed our government wipe MBSs ass with our values. In slow motion. We knew EXACTLY what was going on, how disgusting it was, and it unfolded anyway; nobody could stop it.