19 ms·

Can’t question the isreal alliance either, some things are just off topic.

vagrantJin 6y ago
Haha. It seems you have hit the nail on the head with exacting precision
cbozeman 6y ago
That one is a lot stickier, because no one tried to systematically wipe out the Saudi people. Hundreds of thousands of Saudis didn't immigrate here to escape certain death. There's also the fact that America is still a very religious country - and takes it seriously - so many people support Israel because they really do believe they're protecting God's chosen people. No one should "wish" for war, but I've often wondered what would happen if Saudi Arabia decided to wage war against Israel. I'm very curious with whom America would ultimately side.
- tsimionescu 6y ago
  > There's also the fact that America is still a very religious country - and takes it seriously - so many people support Israel because they really do believe they're protecting God's chosen people. From what I understand, there is also a surprisingly large base of devout Christians who support Israel in the hopes/belief that it will lead to a prophesied battle at Armaggedon, helping to usher the end of the world. Apparently [0] George Bush Jr. may have been a believer in this theory (though others dispute this: [1]) [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/a... [1] https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/15/bush-chirac-and-the-war-in-iraq/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/15/bush-chirac-and-the-war...
  - leto_ii 6y ago
    Your comment reminds me of a series of concepts that I've discovered while going down a Wikipedia rabbit hole of protestant theology: [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theonomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theonomy [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism Some of this stuff makes the blood curdle. If it was spewed by some guy in a turban the US would probably have had him killed with robots from the sky by now...
    - eznzt 6y ago
      "According to an Ifop opinion poll in October, 57 per cent of French Muslims under 25 think sharia law is more important than the law of the French republic" https://www.ft.com/content/b6c0681f-3a0a-40fa-8b90-86997925f6b0 https://www.ft.com/content/b6c0681f-3a0a-40fa-8b90-86997925f...
  - angst_ridden 6y ago
    In the past few decades, unequivocal support for Israel has fallen among American Jews, while it has grown among Evangelical Christians. Admittedly, these numbers are complicated, as a majority American Jews say they feel an "emotional connection" to Israel, but nearly 60% are critical of the country's policies, and fewer than 25% are both pro-Israel and supportive of the current government policies. See https://jewishcurrents.org/are-95-of-jews-really-zionists/ https://jewishcurrents.org/are-95-of-jews-really-zionists/, https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/80-percent-of-us-jews-say-they-are-pro-israel-study-finds-616479 https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/80-percent-of-us-jews-say-the..., etc.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > There's also the fact that America is still a very religious country - and takes it seriously - so many people support Israel because they really do believe they're protecting God's chosen people. Even that's stickier than it initially appears, in that some of the American evangelical supporters of Israel do so because they think it's necessary to start the End Times. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h... These prophesies don't actually end well for the Jews.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ficklepickle 6y ago
    Everyone thinks their group is chosen by god. News at 6. None of theses superstitions end well for humanity.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      > Everyone thinks their group is chosen by god. News at 6. Not all apocalyptic thinkers get a reasonable shot at the nuclear codes of the world's primary superpower every few years, though.
- snypher 6y ago
  "If Israel did not exist, the United States would have to invent one to protect her interests in the region" “My father would say, were he a Jew, he would never, never entrust the security of his people to any individual nation, no matter how good and how noble it was, like the United States.”
- throwawaygal7 6y ago
  For some reason, we never talk about the religious motivations behind the creation of the state of Israel. The balfour declaration was signed well before the holocaust had ever happened; using the holocaust to justify the creation of the colony if israel is anachronistic at best.
- orange_tee 6y ago
  Christianity and Protestantism in particular have historically been sources of antisemitism and this was true up till well within the 20th century. The fact that hardcore American Christians have now been converted to pro-Israel fanatics, makes the whole thing much weirder, if anything.
  - spijdar 6y ago
    The reality is more complicated than that. This line of "pro-Israel fanatics" goes back quite some time, albeit in different forms. Take British Israelism as an example. [0] Granted, British Israelism would morph into an even more insane (and downright misanthropic) off-shoot, but you know, humans gonna human I guess. I think these attitudes about Israel have existed for quite a long time anyway. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism
SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
The Israel alliance is hard to question simply because, unlike Saudi Arabia, Israel is very popular in the US. If all you saw was the polling data - there’s a country A with 70% favorability overall, at least 50% within each political party, and their main rival B has 20% favorability - you wouldn’t be surprised to see a strong and hard to question alliance with A.

Haha. It seems you have hit the nail on the head with exacting precision

That one is a lot stickier, because no one tried to systematically wipe out the Saudi people. Hundreds of thousands of Saudis didn't immigrate here to escape certain death. There's also the fact that America is still a very religious country - and takes it seriously - so many people support Israel because they really do believe they're protecting God's chosen people. No one should "wish" for war, but I've often wondered what would happen if Saudi Arabia decided to wage war against Israel. I'm very curious with whom America would ultimately side.

tsimionescu 6y ago
> There's also the fact that America is still a very religious country - and takes it seriously - so many people support Israel because they really do believe they're protecting God's chosen people. From what I understand, there is also a surprisingly large base of devout Christians who support Israel in the hopes/belief that it will lead to a prophesied battle at Armaggedon, helping to usher the end of the world. Apparently [0] George Bush Jr. may have been a believer in this theory (though others dispute this: [1]) [0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/a... [1] https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/15/bush-chirac-and-the-war-in-iraq/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/15/bush-chirac-and-the-war...
- leto_ii 6y ago
  Your comment reminds me of a series of concepts that I've discovered while going down a Wikipedia rabbit hole of protestant theology: [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theonomy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theonomy [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism Some of this stuff makes the blood curdle. If it was spewed by some guy in a turban the US would probably have had him killed with robots from the sky by now...
  - eznzt 6y ago
    "According to an Ifop opinion poll in October, 57 per cent of French Muslims under 25 think sharia law is more important than the law of the French republic" https://www.ft.com/content/b6c0681f-3a0a-40fa-8b90-86997925f6b0 https://www.ft.com/content/b6c0681f-3a0a-40fa-8b90-86997925f...
- angst_ridden 6y ago
  In the past few decades, unequivocal support for Israel has fallen among American Jews, while it has grown among Evangelical Christians. Admittedly, these numbers are complicated, as a majority American Jews say they feel an "emotional connection" to Israel, but nearly 60% are critical of the country's policies, and fewer than 25% are both pro-Israel and supportive of the current government policies. See https://jewishcurrents.org/are-95-of-jews-really-zionists/ https://jewishcurrents.org/are-95-of-jews-really-zionists/, https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/80-percent-of-us-jews-say-they-are-pro-israel-study-finds-616479 https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/80-percent-of-us-jews-say-the..., etc.
ceejayoz 6y ago
> There's also the fact that America is still a very religious country - and takes it seriously - so many people support Israel because they really do believe they're protecting God's chosen people. Even that's stickier than it initially appears, in that some of the American evangelical supporters of Israel do so because they think it's necessary to start the End Times. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h... These prophesies don't actually end well for the Jews.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  Everyone thinks their group is chosen by god. News at 6. None of theses superstitions end well for humanity.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > Everyone thinks their group is chosen by god. News at 6. Not all apocalyptic thinkers get a reasonable shot at the nuclear codes of the world's primary superpower every few years, though.
snypher 6y ago
"If Israel did not exist, the United States would have to invent one to protect her interests in the region" “My father would say, were he a Jew, he would never, never entrust the security of his people to any individual nation, no matter how good and how noble it was, like the United States.”
throwawaygal7 6y ago
For some reason, we never talk about the religious motivations behind the creation of the state of Israel. The balfour declaration was signed well before the holocaust had ever happened; using the holocaust to justify the creation of the colony if israel is anachronistic at best.
orange_tee 6y ago
Christianity and Protestantism in particular have historically been sources of antisemitism and this was true up till well within the 20th century. The fact that hardcore American Christians have now been converted to pro-Israel fanatics, makes the whole thing much weirder, if anything.
- spijdar 6y ago
  The reality is more complicated than that. This line of "pro-Israel fanatics" goes back quite some time, albeit in different forms. Take British Israelism as an example. [0] Granted, British Israelism would morph into an even more insane (and downright misanthropic) off-shoot, but you know, humans gonna human I guess. I think these attitudes about Israel have existed for quite a long time anyway. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago

The Israel alliance is hard to question simply because, unlike Saudi Arabia, Israel is very popular in the US. If all you saw was the polling data - there’s a country A with 70% favorability overall, at least 50% within each political party, and their main rival B has 20% favorability - you wouldn’t be surprised to see a strong and hard to question alliance with A.