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>I haven't seen any attempted defense of it yet Ok but did you look? https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-officials-show-frame-by-frame-what-r

>I haven't seen any attempted defense of it yet Ok but did you look? https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-officials-show-frame-by-frame-what-really-happened-fulton-surveillance-video/T5M3PYIBYFHFFOD3CIB2ULDVDE/ https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-officia...

purchaceallsus 6y ago
Isn't this contradicted by reporters at the time saying that they were sent home for the night? Do we have video and audio of the event in question? edit: rather than downvoting me, please engage with the question so others can learn.
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  The ballots were on camera in the room the entire time, if reporters had been sent home they still wouldn't have appeared out of a mystery suitcase. They were sealed on camera, then unsealed on camera, and counted on camera. They have been counted and recounted and recounted. I don't know if reporters were "sent home" as you are claiming, or if they "left" as described by this video when election employees were initially closing up for the night, but either way the monitors and media saw those ballots go into the boxes and Giuliani was still lying about where they came from.
  - purchaceallsus 6y ago
    Thank you for your reply. >The ballots were on camera in the room the entire time, if reporters had been sent home they still wouldn't have appeared out of a mystery suitcase. They were sealed on camera, then unsealed on camera, and counted on camera. They have been counted and recounted and recounted. Here are the sworn affidavits that state the observers were too far to monitor what was being done with the boxes when they were brought in during the day [0]. >I don't know if reporters were "sent home" as you are claiming, or if they "left" as described by this video when election employees were initially closing up for the night, but either way the monitors and media saw those ballots go into the boxes and Giuliani was still lying about where they came from. Here are the sworn affidavits of two poll watchers that say they were sent home [1]. This corroborates what David Shafer says happened that night [2]. Also ABC news reported the same, their source was Regina Waller [3]. ================ [0] https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.284055/gov.uscourts.gand.284055.1.29.pdf https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.284055... [1] https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331-mitchell-harrison-affidavit https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331-mitchell-h... [2] https://twitter.com/DavidShafer/status/1325956840769859586?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1325956840769859586%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2020%2F11%2Finspire-confidence-one-credentialed-gop-monitor-allowed-ten-counting-tables-georgia-hand-recount-video%2F https://twitter.com/DavidShafer/status/1325956840769859586?r... [3] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pipe-bursts-atlanta-arena-causing-hour-delay-processing/story?id=73981348 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pipe-bursts-atlanta-arena-ca...
    - wlesieutre 6y ago
      I don’t have anything to add on monitoring distance, but both of the affidavits you linked specifically agree with the video that they left and not that they were kicked out, because everyone thought counting was finished for the night. Neither of them claims they wouldn’t have been allowed to stay if they had stayed until the room was empty. What the state investigator says, and what those affidavits both appear to agree with, is > Nobody told them to stay. Nobody told them to leave. Nobody gave them any advice on what they should do. And It was still open for them or the public to come back in to view at whatever time they wanted to, as long as they were still working. I’m going to give more credence to the affidavits of the people who were directly involved over the wording from ABC. One of them did return later and was allowed in, but arrived as the counting was complete. It’s an unfortunate situation that everyone was told it was closing down and then the secretary of state’s office called to tell them to keep counting, but that doesn’t support Giuliano’s claims about rigging the election with suitcases of ballots from under a table.
      - purchanceallus 6y ago
        >I don’t have anything to add on monitoring distance, but both of the affidavits you linked specifically agree with the video that they left and not that they were kicked out, because everyone thought counting was finished for the night. Neither of them claims they wouldn’t have been allowed to stay if they had stayed until the room was empty. It seems the reason they thought they were done counting is because a supervisor told the counters to go home, and said that they were done counting for the day. Relevant part from the linked document (paragraph 8): "Sometime after 10 o'clock p.m., the counting activity slowed. Shortly afterward, a younger lady with long braided but blond hair yelled out to all of them they should stop working and come back tomorrow (the next day, Wednesday November 4th) at 8:30 A.M.. Thereafter, all but 4 election employees left State Farm, leaving just the blond haired lady (who Michelle and I assumed was the supervisor), two older ladies and Regina Waller at the location. This lady had appeared through the night and Michelle and I believed her to be the supervisor." I think that while it is possible the observers could have just stayed there until everyone left, it is likely that they believed what they were told -- that the counting would finish the next day. At any rate, it is at best a bad look. I agree that it doesn't prove fraud or anything close. It does, however, look suspicious and IMHO warrants further investigation.
unanswered 6y ago
Yes, I've seen that. It corroborates exactly what Giuliani was saying: the decision was made to bar observers and media from the room from the night, and the decision was made to nonetheless continue vote counting activities in their absence. That's the whole problem. The only thing the statement adds is that they investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong. That is not the same thing as having observers. Even North Korea investigates its own elections and concludes that it does nothing wrong.
- wlesieutre 6y ago
  I must have missed the part of the video where media and observers were barred from the room, rather than simply having left. Could you give me a timestamp? With the whole thing being on camera and knowing that no secret ballot suitcases were smuggled in, are we to believe that in the absence of observers they somehow rigged the counting machines to mis-scan these ballots, even though the hand recount for Fulton only differed from the initial count by 0.07%?
  - unanswered 6y ago
    The observers are not there to make sure the ballot scanners are working. They're there to audit the portion of the process which can never ever be re-audited: the provenance of secret ballots. Of course if you re-count the same ballots over again you'll come up with something roughly the same. This "hand recount had identical* results" mantra to reinforce the core idea "the election has been independently verified" may work on the general public but it shouldn't work on HN. There's no need to believe the suitcases were smuggled in, although you yourself appear to have doubts in that direction. For example, they could be perfectly authentic ballots with some flawed provenance. A priori this seems the most plausible explanation. > rather than simply having left. Leaving a semi-public place such as an arena or an office building for the night has the result of not being permitted back in until the next public opening. Your arguments have turned to disingenuity and open trolling.
    - javagram 6y ago
      > The observers are not there to make sure the ballot scanners are working. They're there to audit the portion of the process which can never ever be re-audited: the provenance of secret ballots But the provenance is on camera. Those ballots were right there with the rest of them. What exactly is the “auditing” you think the observers would have done that the Republican secretary of state’s staffer didn’t do?

purchaceallsus 6y ago

Isn't this contradicted by reporters at the time saying that they were sent home for the night? Do we have video and audio of the event in question? edit: rather than downvoting me, please engage with the question so others can learn.

wlesieutre 6y ago
The ballots were on camera in the room the entire time, if reporters had been sent home they still wouldn't have appeared out of a mystery suitcase. They were sealed on camera, then unsealed on camera, and counted on camera. They have been counted and recounted and recounted. I don't know if reporters were "sent home" as you are claiming, or if they "left" as described by this video when election employees were initially closing up for the night, but either way the monitors and media saw those ballots go into the boxes and Giuliani was still lying about where they came from.
- purchaceallsus 6y ago
  Thank you for your reply. >The ballots were on camera in the room the entire time, if reporters had been sent home they still wouldn't have appeared out of a mystery suitcase. They were sealed on camera, then unsealed on camera, and counted on camera. They have been counted and recounted and recounted. Here are the sworn affidavits that state the observers were too far to monitor what was being done with the boxes when they were brought in during the day [0]. >I don't know if reporters were "sent home" as you are claiming, or if they "left" as described by this video when election employees were initially closing up for the night, but either way the monitors and media saw those ballots go into the boxes and Giuliani was still lying about where they came from. Here are the sworn affidavits of two poll watchers that say they were sent home [1]. This corroborates what David Shafer says happened that night [2]. Also ABC news reported the same, their source was Regina Waller [3]. ================ [0] https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.284055/gov.uscourts.gand.284055.1.29.pdf https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.284055... [1] https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331-mitchell-harrison-affidavit https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20420331-mitchell-h... [2] https://twitter.com/DavidShafer/status/1325956840769859586?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1325956840769859586%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2020%2F11%2Finspire-confidence-one-credentialed-gop-monitor-allowed-ten-counting-tables-georgia-hand-recount-video%2F https://twitter.com/DavidShafer/status/1325956840769859586?r... [3] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pipe-bursts-atlanta-arena-causing-hour-delay-processing/story?id=73981348 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pipe-bursts-atlanta-arena-ca...
  - wlesieutre 6y ago
    I don’t have anything to add on monitoring distance, but both of the affidavits you linked specifically agree with the video that they left and not that they were kicked out, because everyone thought counting was finished for the night. Neither of them claims they wouldn’t have been allowed to stay if they had stayed until the room was empty. What the state investigator says, and what those affidavits both appear to agree with, is > Nobody told them to stay. Nobody told them to leave. Nobody gave them any advice on what they should do. And It was still open for them or the public to come back in to view at whatever time they wanted to, as long as they were still working. I’m going to give more credence to the affidavits of the people who were directly involved over the wording from ABC. One of them did return later and was allowed in, but arrived as the counting was complete. It’s an unfortunate situation that everyone was told it was closing down and then the secretary of state’s office called to tell them to keep counting, but that doesn’t support Giuliano’s claims about rigging the election with suitcases of ballots from under a table.
    - purchanceallus 6y ago
      >I don’t have anything to add on monitoring distance, but both of the affidavits you linked specifically agree with the video that they left and not that they were kicked out, because everyone thought counting was finished for the night. Neither of them claims they wouldn’t have been allowed to stay if they had stayed until the room was empty. It seems the reason they thought they were done counting is because a supervisor told the counters to go home, and said that they were done counting for the day. Relevant part from the linked document (paragraph 8): "Sometime after 10 o'clock p.m., the counting activity slowed. Shortly afterward, a younger lady with long braided but blond hair yelled out to all of them they should stop working and come back tomorrow (the next day, Wednesday November 4th) at 8:30 A.M.. Thereafter, all but 4 election employees left State Farm, leaving just the blond haired lady (who Michelle and I assumed was the supervisor), two older ladies and Regina Waller at the location. This lady had appeared through the night and Michelle and I believed her to be the supervisor." I think that while it is possible the observers could have just stayed there until everyone left, it is likely that they believed what they were told -- that the counting would finish the next day. At any rate, it is at best a bad look. I agree that it doesn't prove fraud or anything close. It does, however, look suspicious and IMHO warrants further investigation.

unanswered 6y ago

Yes, I've seen that. It corroborates exactly what Giuliani was saying: the decision was made to bar observers and media from the room from the night, and the decision was made to nonetheless continue vote counting activities in their absence. That's the whole problem. The only thing the statement adds is that they investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong. That is not the same thing as having observers. Even North Korea investigates its own elections and concludes that it does nothing wrong.

wlesieutre 6y ago
I must have missed the part of the video where media and observers were barred from the room, rather than simply having left. Could you give me a timestamp? With the whole thing being on camera and knowing that no secret ballot suitcases were smuggled in, are we to believe that in the absence of observers they somehow rigged the counting machines to mis-scan these ballots, even though the hand recount for Fulton only differed from the initial count by 0.07%?
- unanswered 6y ago
  The observers are not there to make sure the ballot scanners are working. They're there to audit the portion of the process which can never ever be re-audited: the provenance of secret ballots. Of course if you re-count the same ballots over again you'll come up with something roughly the same. This "hand recount had identical* results" mantra to reinforce the core idea "the election has been independently verified" may work on the general public but it shouldn't work on HN. There's no need to believe the suitcases were smuggled in, although you yourself appear to have doubts in that direction. For example, they could be perfectly authentic ballots with some flawed provenance. A priori this seems the most plausible explanation. > rather than simply having left. Leaving a semi-public place such as an arena or an office building for the night has the result of not being permitted back in until the next public opening. Your arguments have turned to disingenuity and open trolling.
  - javagram 6y ago
    > The observers are not there to make sure the ballot scanners are working. They're there to audit the portion of the process which can never ever be re-audited: the provenance of secret ballots But the provenance is on camera. Those ballots were right there with the rest of them. What exactly is the “auditing” you think the observers would have done that the Republican secretary of state’s staffer didn’t do?