7 ms·

How is this directly related to Bolsonaro? Because it happened in the country he is president of?

gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
The original comment is likely a troll, but the current goverment did place a bunch of amateur hacks on the highest positions of power, which led to things like the minister of culture asserting to the public that woman belongs in the kitchen, or that the minister of education asserting in public that the humanities like sociology and history must disappear from the face of earth, and the ministry of environment saying in a leaked video of a presidential meeting that thanks to covid they now had the distraction they needed to kill indians and give the land to soy farmers. So, even if trollish comment, it is not too removed from truth. I can see how incompetence, cost cuts, corruption and favoritism (he did place all his sons in a trump-like fashion in his cabinet) might have led to this. Not to mention relaxing of oversight and the rule of law which allowed for even more departments (and the private companies working for those) to hold and share this information without concerns. The previous government (removed illegitimacy in a coup) did place emphasis on digital security. Brazil have safe electronic voting for decades and Brazilians receive a java application by the gov to do their taxes since the 90s. The current gov was elected on the basis of "we will undo everything the last <<corrupt>> government did"
- eznzt 6y ago
  They are not that far off on sociology lol
- Natsu 6y ago
  > The previous government (removed illegitimacy in a coup) Dilma was impeached and removed, Temer finished her term, then Bolsonaro won the election after getting stabbed, and nearly killed, by opposition supporters. I know he's highly controversial, but he did win the election. The removal of Dilma is not normally what one would describe as a "coup." The military junta from 1969, however, is.
  - oscargrouch 6y ago
    What you are describing is a "hard coup", while in the case of Dilma it was what can be described as a "soft coup".. Yes the congress followed all the legal proceedings, but in the end they did not proved that the accounting maneuver her government did was illegal and therefore unfit to what could be called as a legal impeachment proceeding. If you add this to everything that was happening behind the curtains, and history will make this even more clear, yes it was a coup, just that, this is of a different sort. (BTW a lot of important players of the time are starting to confess everything they did, and how dirty it was) Imagine that without any legal proof, the legislative chamber can throw out any legitimate president basically nullifying the people wish and therefore, the democracy. Also this will make the legislative power, the most powerful one over the two others, going against the three power(separation of powers) concept of Montesquieu. That's why the impeachment proceeding cannot be only based in political grounds, but also need a clear legal basis on the government doing something wrong based on the current legal framework. In the case of Dilma, only the political axis was at play, and a dirty one i must say, where they didn't respect the legal grounds and in the end there was no proof of her wrongdoing's.
    - Natsu 6y ago
      Even if you say the ouster of Dilma was illegitimate, there's the fact that her VP served out the rest of her term, then the party lost the next election. There's no "coup" because there was no loss of power by anything other than the democratic process. Now of course there have been all sorts of dirty political dealings, those just aren't described by the word "coup." That said, if some day Bolsonaro or others forms a new junta, then I will agree with you at that later time. But that day is not today, unless I am slow in receiving news of a newly formed junta.
      - gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
        Does brazil have a 50c army like china now? > then the party lost the next election. with the running candidate jailed with obviously fabricated evidence and released last year with no conviction. All the while with whatsapp campaigns promoting pizza-gate like conspiracies. > her VP served out the rest of her term that I fully blame on the party picking an extremely right wing to be able to get elected. But don't make the soft coup less of a coup. The VP was choose to get support from the farmers and religious groups that control most of the interior of the country, and they payed the price for that.

The original comment is likely a troll, but the current goverment did place a bunch of amateur hacks on the highest positions of power, which led to things like the minister of culture asserting to the public that woman belongs in the kitchen, or that the minister of education asserting in public that the humanities like sociology and history must disappear from the face of earth, and the ministry of environment saying in a leaked video of a presidential meeting that thanks to covid they now had the distraction they needed to kill indians and give the land to soy farmers. So, even if trollish comment, it is not too removed from truth. I can see how incompetence, cost cuts, corruption and favoritism (he did place all his sons in a trump-like fashion in his cabinet) might have led to this. Not to mention relaxing of oversight and the rule of law which allowed for even more departments (and the private companies working for those) to hold and share this information without concerns. The previous government (removed illegitimacy in a coup) did place emphasis on digital security. Brazil have safe electronic voting for decades and Brazilians receive a java application by the gov to do their taxes since the 90s. The current gov was elected on the basis of "we will undo everything the last <<corrupt>> government did"

eznzt 6y ago
They are not that far off on sociology lol
Natsu 6y ago
> The previous government (removed illegitimacy in a coup) Dilma was impeached and removed, Temer finished her term, then Bolsonaro won the election after getting stabbed, and nearly killed, by opposition supporters. I know he's highly controversial, but he did win the election. The removal of Dilma is not normally what one would describe as a "coup." The military junta from 1969, however, is.
- oscargrouch 6y ago
  What you are describing is a "hard coup", while in the case of Dilma it was what can be described as a "soft coup".. Yes the congress followed all the legal proceedings, but in the end they did not proved that the accounting maneuver her government did was illegal and therefore unfit to what could be called as a legal impeachment proceeding. If you add this to everything that was happening behind the curtains, and history will make this even more clear, yes it was a coup, just that, this is of a different sort. (BTW a lot of important players of the time are starting to confess everything they did, and how dirty it was) Imagine that without any legal proof, the legislative chamber can throw out any legitimate president basically nullifying the people wish and therefore, the democracy. Also this will make the legislative power, the most powerful one over the two others, going against the three power(separation of powers) concept of Montesquieu. That's why the impeachment proceeding cannot be only based in political grounds, but also need a clear legal basis on the government doing something wrong based on the current legal framework. In the case of Dilma, only the political axis was at play, and a dirty one i must say, where they didn't respect the legal grounds and in the end there was no proof of her wrongdoing's.
  - Natsu 6y ago
    Even if you say the ouster of Dilma was illegitimate, there's the fact that her VP served out the rest of her term, then the party lost the next election. There's no "coup" because there was no loss of power by anything other than the democratic process. Now of course there have been all sorts of dirty political dealings, those just aren't described by the word "coup." That said, if some day Bolsonaro or others forms a new junta, then I will agree with you at that later time. But that day is not today, unless I am slow in receiving news of a newly formed junta.
    - gcblkjaidfj 6y ago
      Does brazil have a 50c army like china now? > then the party lost the next election. with the running candidate jailed with obviously fabricated evidence and released last year with no conviction. All the while with whatsapp campaigns promoting pizza-gate like conspiracies. > her VP served out the rest of her term that I fully blame on the party picking an extremely right wing to be able to get elected. But don't make the soft coup less of a coup. The VP was choose to get support from the farmers and religious groups that control most of the interior of the country, and they payed the price for that.