6 ms·

1.8% is pretty good compared to the rest of the EU right? I'm still not sure why a lot of countries started so late or so slowly. Still, like a lot of things,

1.8% is pretty good compared to the rest of the EU right? I'm still not sure why a lot of countries started so late or so slowly. Still, like a lot of things, the last 20% is magnitudes harder then the first 20%. Finishing vaccination programs will come down to how well each government can educate their populist. I fear this is where America will fall down.

anovikov 6y ago
I believe in the end of the day, it will be directly or indirectly forced. Like, people who were not vaccinated will be fined, or later, detained if they are caught leaving their homes. I just see no other way around it, or pandemic never stops in most countries.
- WA 6y ago
  Not sure where you're from, but most Western countries have no legal basis to detain people leaving their homes just because they're not vaccinated. There might be some restrictions like air travel though.
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    even though I agree with you, The government has no business in saying who and how many people I invite to my home, or either who i meet in the Park. And here we are.
    - mbg721 6y ago
      There's an issue here in defining how long a state of emergency can last. For most people, a few days (as for a natural disaster) is perfectly reasonable, and years on end is obvious abuse of power. We're just in between at the moment.
  - anovikov 6y ago
    there will be a point where these concerns will have to be thrown out of the window. or the epidemic will just be endless.
    - pelasaco 6y ago
      "These concerns" are what we call Fundamental rights. I don't think we should throw them out of the window.
      - swarnie_ 6y ago
        Considering i haven't seen my parents in 10 months its safe to say we already have.
      - anovikov 6y ago
        it will work easily: nations that do it first, will be so rapidly outcompeting others, in a few years everyone will see there is no choice.
        pelasaco 6y ago
        Sorry, you mean nations that kill democracy are going to out compete the others?
        mbg721 6y ago
        There are "others"?
- steerablesafe 6y ago
  Yes, Hungary will introduce "vaccine passport" (vakcinaútlevél) cards to be exempt from curfew for example.
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    that would just make sense or be fair if everyone get access to the vaccine before those passports are enforced. Otherwise the 80+ years old people are going to have a lot of fun in an empty world :)
    - steerablesafe 6y ago
      It's mostly at the rumor level, but this concept seems to be supported by decision makers so far. AFAIK no decision or timeline yet.
      - pelasaco 6y ago
        yes, well in Germany, the Federal Minister of Health said that "Vaccine won't be mandatory" but there were already some decisions to fire/punish employees (i.e Nurses and Soldiers) that refused to take the vaccine. That's remember me the famous saying: "Nobody has any intention of building a wall" (Walter Ulbricht) References: https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-impfung-impfpflicht-chef-kuendigung-verweigerer-gegner-pflege-dessau-sachsen-anhalt-zr-90179082.html https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-impfung-impfpflicht-c... https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-impfung-impfpflicht-chef-kuendigung-verweigerer-gegner-pflege-dessau-sachsen-anhalt-zr-90179082.html https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-impfung-impfpflicht-c... https://footage-berlin.com/en/nobody-has-any-intention-of-building-a-wall-walter-ulbricht-june-15-1961/ https://footage-berlin.com/en/nobody-has-any-intention-of-bu...
pelasaco 6y ago
Populism x Virtue Signal is the ideology battle from the century. The populists believe in the chip implant and the "Virtue signalist" believe that to focus on the "Elderly" is the only right thing to do. In the middle are we, 99% of the population, in home arrest. IMO 1.8% is bad for a region that are responsible for the technology/production and distribution. Maybe it reflects how less influential EU became in the World geopolitics?
- junippor 6y ago
  > Populism x Virtue Signal is the ideology battle from the century. Nonsense. Populism is LITERALLY Virtue Signaling. They're the same thing. So if there's two teams, one identify with a different word for the same thing, you might as well just call them team red and team blue instead. The actual ideological battle is between those who believe that the world is complex and that learning about the world is really hard work, but can be done through iterated improvement (i.e. people who have an education, not just on paper, but who can actually reason and critically think about the things they learn) and those who start from the assumption that they basically got it all figured out (the anti-intelectualists). This starts as a simple difference in attitude, but with time one of these becomes smarter and more knowledgeable, whereas the other stagnates.
- pelasaco 6y ago
  > Nonsense. Populism is LITERALLY Virtue Signaling. Interesting. I like that definition. Thanks!

anovikov 6y ago

I believe in the end of the day, it will be directly or indirectly forced. Like, people who were not vaccinated will be fined, or later, detained if they are caught leaving their homes. I just see no other way around it, or pandemic never stops in most countries.

WA 6y ago
Not sure where you're from, but most Western countries have no legal basis to detain people leaving their homes just because they're not vaccinated. There might be some restrictions like air travel though.
- pelasaco 6y ago
  even though I agree with you, The government has no business in saying who and how many people I invite to my home, or either who i meet in the Park. And here we are.
  - mbg721 6y ago
    There's an issue here in defining how long a state of emergency can last. For most people, a few days (as for a natural disaster) is perfectly reasonable, and years on end is obvious abuse of power. We're just in between at the moment.
- anovikov 6y ago
  there will be a point where these concerns will have to be thrown out of the window. or the epidemic will just be endless.
  - pelasaco 6y ago
    "These concerns" are what we call Fundamental rights. I don't think we should throw them out of the window.
    - swarnie_ 6y ago
      Considering i haven't seen my parents in 10 months its safe to say we already have.
    - anovikov 6y ago
      it will work easily: nations that do it first, will be so rapidly outcompeting others, in a few years everyone will see there is no choice.
      - pelasaco 6y ago
        Sorry, you mean nations that kill democracy are going to out compete the others?
        mbg721 6y ago
        There are "others"?
steerablesafe 6y ago
Yes, Hungary will introduce "vaccine passport" (vakcinaútlevél) cards to be exempt from curfew for example.
- pelasaco 6y ago
  that would just make sense or be fair if everyone get access to the vaccine before those passports are enforced. Otherwise the 80+ years old people are going to have a lot of fun in an empty world :)
  - steerablesafe 6y ago
    It's mostly at the rumor level, but this concept seems to be supported by decision makers so far. AFAIK no decision or timeline yet.
    - pelasaco 6y ago
      yes, well in Germany, the Federal Minister of Health said that "Vaccine won't be mandatory" but there were already some decisions to fire/punish employees (i.e Nurses and Soldiers) that refused to take the vaccine. That's remember me the famous saying: "Nobody has any intention of building a wall" (Walter Ulbricht) References: https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-impfung-impfpflicht-chef-kuendigung-verweigerer-gegner-pflege-dessau-sachsen-anhalt-zr-90179082.html https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-impfung-impfpflicht-c... https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-impfung-impfpflicht-chef-kuendigung-verweigerer-gegner-pflege-dessau-sachsen-anhalt-zr-90179082.html https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-impfung-impfpflicht-c... https://footage-berlin.com/en/nobody-has-any-intention-of-building-a-wall-walter-ulbricht-june-15-1961/ https://footage-berlin.com/en/nobody-has-any-intention-of-bu...

pelasaco 6y ago

Populism x Virtue Signal is the ideology battle from the century. The populists believe in the chip implant and the "Virtue signalist" believe that to focus on the "Elderly" is the only right thing to do. In the middle are we, 99% of the population, in home arrest. IMO 1.8% is bad for a region that are responsible for the technology/production and distribution. Maybe it reflects how less influential EU became in the World geopolitics?

junippor 6y ago
> Populism x Virtue Signal is the ideology battle from the century. Nonsense. Populism is LITERALLY Virtue Signaling. They're the same thing. So if there's two teams, one identify with a different word for the same thing, you might as well just call them team red and team blue instead. The actual ideological battle is between those who believe that the world is complex and that learning about the world is really hard work, but can be done through iterated improvement (i.e. people who have an education, not just on paper, but who can actually reason and critically think about the things they learn) and those who start from the assumption that they basically got it all figured out (the anti-intelectualists). This starts as a simple difference in attitude, but with time one of these becomes smarter and more knowledgeable, whereas the other stagnates.
pelasaco 6y ago
> Nonsense. Populism is LITERALLY Virtue Signaling. Interesting. I like that definition. Thanks!