10 ms·

I’ll be interested to see the lifespan of EVs for “normal” people. I’ve got a 2012 Nissan LEAF we bought post-lease in 2015. I love it still, and don’t have any

I’ll be interested to see the lifespan of EVs for “normal” people. I’ve got a 2012 Nissan LEAF we bought post-lease in 2015. I love it still, and don’t have any plans to replace it. The battery is not in great shape, but it gets me where I need to go. I am genuinely considering replacing the battery rather than buying another EV when the battery finally fails.

theshrike79 6y ago
The only cars having actual battery issues so far are older Leafs (shit thermal management for the battery) and Priuses (they're just old). No other EV has had major battery issues yet, so there really hasn't been time to develop a viable 3rd party battery replacement industry. Even the actual car manufacturers tend to quote insane prices for full battery replacements because they really don't have a process in place on how to handle it yet.
- jeffreygoesto 6y ago
  "just old" applies to the battery technology used when they were built. Not to "a car" in general. It is totally uneconomic to scrap a car only because one part broke. I own a car from 1978 that is in very good shape (for some minimal maintenance cost, you should not just let it rot).
  - uncledave 6y ago
    There will be a third party battery and retrofit industry when enough people have them.
  - csunbird 6y ago
    > It is totally uneconomic to scrap a car only because one part broke. When the battery replacement cost outvalues the cars price, it is uneconomical to repair.
    - selykg 6y ago
      Everyone is always so hung up on the value of the car when it comes to repairs. The value of the car is only what someone would pay for it. If you're planning to keep it, then that value is only an insurance number. A car is potentially worth a lot more if you keep it, especially if the car is low maintenance. With electric cars you trade some value up front (they are typically more expensive) to reduce the maintenance over the long term. But you will still have maintenance like replacing batteries when they go. You saved the cost of filling it up with gas and changing oil for going electric. So the smart move would be to treat your car like you're still sort of filling it with gas and changing oil and put that money towards the cost of new batteries when the time comes. Every car has maintenance costs. With electric you just sort of push it down the road a ways when it comes to the battery. You could get a new car... sure.. but now you have a car payment, or you may have thrown a bunch of cash at the problem. But if there's nothing wrong with your car except maintenance then put that money into the maintenance. Otherwise you're just pretending to care about the environment with your electric car that you probably tell yourself is cheaper (due to gas and oil changes) and better for the environment.
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        you're right, the value of the broken car itself is irrelevant to whether it is economic to repair. what is relevant is the cost of a reasonable replacement. if it costs $2000 to to fix the car, you might be better off scrapping it and buying a different used car with that $2000 that actually runs.
        selykg 6y ago
        I still say that's not a good argument. If the repair costs $2000 to fix the car, and it's otherwise fine, then it's worth it over another car so long as it is still getting the job done. Where I would agree with you is when the car is no longer safe, either from a structural standpoint, or due to safety standards improving drastically. In those types of scenarios it is worth buying a new car simply for those reasons. Maintenance has to be done regardless of what kind of car you have. If you're skipping those steps then it'll come back to bite you. I think people just don't like maintenance because they think it should be less than the value of the car. Which is simply not the case. Cars aren't investments (typically) in the sense that their value rarely goes up. It goes down, almost always. Maintenance is done to keep the vehicle operating properly, reliable, safe, and in good condition. Sometimes those maintenance steps may increase it's value slightly But here's an example. Say you have a car. It's worth $1000 but is otherwise in fine condition. It runs great, it's safe, it is rust free and structurally sound. Except it needs to tires. Lets say those tires cost $750 because you also have to buy a new wheel and maybe the tires are harder to find. Do you go "well... that's too much... I'm just going to throw the car out and get a new one" If you do, you're doing it wrong. The same is true for battery maintenance. If the car is otherwise fine, it's like buying any other maintenance. You may not LIKE that you have to pay for maintenance, but it's part of vehicle ownership.
  - julianlam 6y ago
    The calculus changes when you factor in labour cost. If the transmission from your 1978 car gives out, will you take it into the shop?
    - selykg 6y ago
      Depends a lot on the transmission. Rebuilding a Turbo 350 or 400 from a GM car is relatively inexpensive in my experience.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      Transmission R&R on anything from 1978 is probably gonna cost less than much more "routine" work on anything from 2020.
  - blake1 6y ago
    I scrapped my model year 2007 car when the engine block broke. The labor on replacing that exceeded the value of the car.
- throwawayzRUU6f 6y ago
  Some older Model S with 60kWh batteries also experience problems (slow acceleration, limited fast charging). The degradation is nowhere near as bad as the old Leafs, though.
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    There are hundreds of millions of people in the world who would happily accept that car instead of what they are using. An old Model S still looks great.
ip26 6y ago
I think it will be really interesting to see what the residual value of the old battery will be. Could be really high- 50% original capacity is a problem for cars but not for grid storage (if the price reflects remaining capacity)
- rhodozelia 6y ago
  50% capacity for energy storage might be ok for Home gamers but no utility scale project is going to spend all the money on permitting, construction and the rest of the power infrastructure and then get batteries that are beat up.
  - phreeza 6y ago
    It's impossible to say without knowing actual prices and doing the math. If a profit can be made, most likely someone will do it.
    - rhodozelia 6y ago
      This is a good point, but I’m thinking a higher return will be earned with new batteries than used ones. I guess we’ll see in 10 years If there are utility scale grid storage with used batteries!
      - ip26 6y ago
        If everybody wrote off the used batteries, then the price of used batteries would be practically nothing. And then somebody would say, Gee, you mean I can buy 1MWh of old Nissan Leaf batteries for $1,000...? An application will be found, or they will be recycled, whichever has better economics.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    I fail to see how permitting, etc. has anything to do with battery capacity. The only thing that will matter is price per kWh of storage and if used batteries can be sourced, binned and serviced reliably.
CameronNemo 6y ago
Maybe the replacement battery will have better tech!
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  AFAIK the main problem with the Leaf battery is that it doesn't have active thermal management[1]. I guess it's possible one could make a replacement battery pack which has an internal cooling loop, but it would be quite limited in how much heat it could get rid of through the battery case body without external radiators. Of course better batteries might heat up less when used or charged, due to lower internal resistance, but that still leaves really hot or freezing days. [1]: https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/31/does-the-new-62-kwh-leaf-battery-have-an-additional-fan-for-cooling/ https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/31/does-the-new-62-kwh-leaf...
  - m463 6y ago
    ha, not really. The main problem(s) with the leaf are - it charges to 100% every time (unless you dig into a menu, turn on analytics and switch to 80%) I never knew a leaf driver that figured this out. - the battery size is very small, so you need a full charge to get anywhere reliably and/or drain it very low. - to put any kind of mileage on the car, you need to cycle the battery MANY times. (one cycle might be a day's driving on the leaf, but one cycle on a tesla is a week's driving or more) I think the leaf would be a perfect car with up to 20 miles of daily driving. (I owned the same car as OP)
    - magicalhippo 6y ago
      > it charges to 100% every time Ah, I hadn't picked up on this. My BMW i3 has a built-in buffer so what shows as 100% on the dash is actually about 80%, and similarly for 0% (I verified through the raw data). Doing true "0-100" definitely does not do the battery any favors.
      - goodcanadian 6y ago
        The leaf also has a built in buffer like that though I don't know the exact numbers.
r00fus 6y ago
An EV inverter for $200 can allow your car to power your refrigerator + router/phone/laptops for many hours (days for a LR Tesla).
- dawnerd 6y ago
  A powerwall has what, 12ish KW usable (less in reality) which a single one can power a house for for up to a day if you're careful about what you're using. If you scale that up to the 75KW+ batteries being put into EVs today buying an inverter could be a good investment if you live in an area with frequent power outages (or a cabin or whatnot). There was also some talk about Teslas being able to send power back to the house with the new HPWC - not sure if that ever happened.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    My two person household uses maybe two kWh per day.
    - Ma8ee 6y ago
      I find that very unlikely if you have any appliances at all. Multiple it by ten and I might start to believe you. For reference, right now we, granted in a four person household and electric heating in the coldest winter month, are using around 100 kWh per day. Even when the house is unoccupied in the summer the consumption is around 3.5 kWh per day. That is probably mostly just a fridge and two freezers.
      - adrianN 6y ago
        From May 2019 to January 2020 we used 706kWh. I have a fridge but no other appliances that constantly draw power. I don't heat electrically, but I cook using electricity. I run the washing machine about once a week or so and hang-dry the clothes. I guess I've used a bit more electricity during the last year because I worked from home more, but I doubt it's a factor 10. 100kWh per day would cost more than I pay for rent...
anovikov 6y ago
I think, there are also better compatible batteries nowadays, so if you buy a new one, you get a better car?
xbmcuser 6y ago
With how much the prices of batteries have come down in the last decade and the battery improvements. Nissan should give a cheap battery replacement to people that want it. This guy upgraded his himself https://thedriven.io/2020/11/04/nissan-leaf-owner-upgrades-ev-battery-for-under-a3500/ https://thedriven.io/2020/11/04/nissan-leaf-owner-upgrades-e...
mobilemidget 6y ago
On the radio the other day there was a car show and they were talking about costs for battery replacements (and then it was advised to replace board computer, managing the batteries too) for a Tesla, I was shocked by the costs. I don't recall the exact but he was 30k+ euro lighter. I was interested in a electric car, but interest dropped significantly after hearing that. Maybe I don't know enough about cars to compare to regular gas cars maintenance costs.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  What does ut cost to replace an engine on a BMW? Thats probably thr closest equivalent
  - Multicomp 6y ago
    According to this internet anecdote, up to $10,000 or so for parts and labor which is about what I'd expect. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080401174600AAbrM6m https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080401174600A...
    - brianwawok 6y ago
      Tesla goal is to get battery replacement cost down to 4-7k. I think right now it’s 13k? So maybe a tad more than a BMW engine but falling fast.
    - aucontraire 6y ago
      Maybe back in 2011 when that was posted, if the swap was for a second hand engine out of a crashed donor car that happened to be on-hand at the independent workshop where the job was carried out. I'd wager a guess that you'd be looking at well north of $30k for putting in a brand new engine in a Tesla-bracket BMW of semi-recent vintage.
      - bsagdiyev 6y ago
        Anecdote but even back 4 or so years ago I got a similar quote (10k) to replace a BMW engine with a new crate motor at the dealership. Let’s not make assumptions.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
I suspect the bottom end of the market is going to disappear. Right now I could buy a car for £1000. It won't be great but it would be good enough to get somebody too and from work and the shops. That won't be feasible when a new battery costs £5000 or more.
- brianwawok 6y ago
  New or used? In the US the realistic floor for a new car is 20k. A few smart cars and such for less, but not anything sold seriously.
  - sergiosgc 6y ago
    Is this real? In Europe you can get a Fiat Panda, brand new, for 9k€. Smallish engine, barebones interior, but overall a pretty decent car.
    - brianwawok 6y ago
      Yes. Cheapest Honda 21k https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/build-and-price#panel-sort-heading-1 https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/build-and-price#panel-so... Cheapest Ford $19,995 https://shop.ford.com/showroom/?linktype=brand&intcmp=hp-showbb#/ https://shop.ford.com/showroom/?linktype=brand&intcmp=hp-sho... Those budget brands generally don’t have dealers here. Like I said you can maybe find a weird budget dealer somewhere, but it’s well under 1% if sales volume. Low budget people typically buy 3-15 year old versions of these cars (which is easily under 10k cost).
      - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        You picked a brand that is a hallmark of upper middle class conspicuous consumption and a brand that doesn't make economy cars (for the North American market) anymore. The Mitsubishi Mirage, Nissan Versa and Chevy Spark (hatchbacks comparable to the small European cars the GP mentioned) MSRP at under 15k.
kakoni 6y ago
How much is the new battery in Holland?
Dumblydorr 6y ago
I've got a 13 year old Prius and its battery is still working! I did have to replace its coolant pump a few years back, but it's still working after 174k, and it's a 2008 battery.
- aembleton 6y ago
  I also drive a 2008 Prius with the original battery. Only things I've had to replace after 180k miles is 12v battery, oil, oil filter, air filter, tyres, wiper blades, lights, brake pads and hand brake cable. Basically things that regularly need changing, although the hand brake cable is probably the exception to that. Most reliable car I've ever owned.
Misteur-Z 6y ago
There are a few Teslas with over 500,000 miles! They have a leader board but I can't find an up to date version. https://twitter.com/TeslaMiles https://twitter.com/TeslaMiles https://insideevs.com/news/339110/highest-mileage-tesla-now-has-over-420000-miles/ https://insideevs.com/news/339110/highest-mileage-tesla-now-... https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-record-mileage-900000-kilometers https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-record-mileage-900000-ki...
akgerber 6y ago
My parents ran their 2004 Prius until last year and it had zero mechanical problems— it was just old, and the parts that were failing and uneconomical to fix were related to interior trim degradation.
Shivetya 6y ago
My issue is I always like the next best thing. What that takes the form of isn't always obvious even to those who know me. Some are making mock fun with me over the fact my Tesla is nearing three years as I do tend so swap nearly every other year if not earlier. However from my 17 Volt to my 18 Tesla 3 I am now only considering BEVs, I really cannot reason myself back into a petrol powered car. With motorcycles there is no real alternative if you want to travel. For the most part they are still in "Leaf" tech with only dipping their toes into liquid cooling the pack and or motor. Worse is that most are useless for commuting as they don't have storage space or wind protection; protection which would improve their aerodynamics. Late 2021 promises to have a much wider selection and 2022 should be a watershed year for EVs. Car wise I would love a good four seat convertible option. To me the EV power and open air travel were just meant to go together, too bad VW doesn't see fit to bring back the Beetle in that form as both previous incarnations were ideal for EV
WorldMaker 6y ago
I'm interested in this as well. The overall median and mean ages of an EV with their first owner is still way above the decades lasting 3 year ICE mean. This doesn't seem to be just an "early adopter effect" as the "neophilia" of "early adopters" you would think would trend the other way to a shorter first owner life. If the increased first owner life of EVs remains as more "normal" people buy in, that implies there may be a major shift in the secondary/used markets and that may be fascinating to watch. It might possibly be a hugely surprising (to some) secondary effect of an EV transition. There's a lot of jobs in the used market, and such a big shift could disrupt those jobs quite a bit. (I've got a 2012 Chevy Volt myself and don't feel a lot of pressure to replace it any time before the 15-year warranty on the drive chain/battery. I probably wouldn't replace the battery, as the small bit of pressure I do feel is that it is about time to get rid of the compromise of having an ICE generator backup I hardly/never use and move to a full proper EV.)

theshrike79 6y ago

The only cars having actual battery issues so far are older Leafs (shit thermal management for the battery) and Priuses (they're just old). No other EV has had major battery issues yet, so there really hasn't been time to develop a viable 3rd party battery replacement industry. Even the actual car manufacturers tend to quote insane prices for full battery replacements because they really don't have a process in place on how to handle it yet.

jeffreygoesto 6y ago
"just old" applies to the battery technology used when they were built. Not to "a car" in general. It is totally uneconomic to scrap a car only because one part broke. I own a car from 1978 that is in very good shape (for some minimal maintenance cost, you should not just let it rot).
- uncledave 6y ago
  There will be a third party battery and retrofit industry when enough people have them.
- csunbird 6y ago
  > It is totally uneconomic to scrap a car only because one part broke. When the battery replacement cost outvalues the cars price, it is uneconomical to repair.
  - selykg 6y ago
    Everyone is always so hung up on the value of the car when it comes to repairs. The value of the car is only what someone would pay for it. If you're planning to keep it, then that value is only an insurance number. A car is potentially worth a lot more if you keep it, especially if the car is low maintenance. With electric cars you trade some value up front (they are typically more expensive) to reduce the maintenance over the long term. But you will still have maintenance like replacing batteries when they go. You saved the cost of filling it up with gas and changing oil for going electric. So the smart move would be to treat your car like you're still sort of filling it with gas and changing oil and put that money towards the cost of new batteries when the time comes. Every car has maintenance costs. With electric you just sort of push it down the road a ways when it comes to the battery. You could get a new car... sure.. but now you have a car payment, or you may have thrown a bunch of cash at the problem. But if there's nothing wrong with your car except maintenance then put that money into the maintenance. Otherwise you're just pretending to care about the environment with your electric car that you probably tell yourself is cheaper (due to gas and oil changes) and better for the environment.
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      you're right, the value of the broken car itself is irrelevant to whether it is economic to repair. what is relevant is the cost of a reasonable replacement. if it costs $2000 to to fix the car, you might be better off scrapping it and buying a different used car with that $2000 that actually runs.
      - selykg 6y ago
        I still say that's not a good argument. If the repair costs $2000 to fix the car, and it's otherwise fine, then it's worth it over another car so long as it is still getting the job done. Where I would agree with you is when the car is no longer safe, either from a structural standpoint, or due to safety standards improving drastically. In those types of scenarios it is worth buying a new car simply for those reasons. Maintenance has to be done regardless of what kind of car you have. If you're skipping those steps then it'll come back to bite you. I think people just don't like maintenance because they think it should be less than the value of the car. Which is simply not the case. Cars aren't investments (typically) in the sense that their value rarely goes up. It goes down, almost always. Maintenance is done to keep the vehicle operating properly, reliable, safe, and in good condition. Sometimes those maintenance steps may increase it's value slightly But here's an example. Say you have a car. It's worth $1000 but is otherwise in fine condition. It runs great, it's safe, it is rust free and structurally sound. Except it needs to tires. Lets say those tires cost $750 because you also have to buy a new wheel and maybe the tires are harder to find. Do you go "well... that's too much... I'm just going to throw the car out and get a new one" If you do, you're doing it wrong. The same is true for battery maintenance. If the car is otherwise fine, it's like buying any other maintenance. You may not LIKE that you have to pay for maintenance, but it's part of vehicle ownership.
- julianlam 6y ago
  The calculus changes when you factor in labour cost. If the transmission from your 1978 car gives out, will you take it into the shop?
  - selykg 6y ago
    Depends a lot on the transmission. Rebuilding a Turbo 350 or 400 from a GM car is relatively inexpensive in my experience.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    Transmission R&R on anything from 1978 is probably gonna cost less than much more "routine" work on anything from 2020.
- blake1 6y ago
  I scrapped my model year 2007 car when the engine block broke. The labor on replacing that exceeded the value of the car.
throwawayzRUU6f 6y ago
Some older Model S with 60kWh batteries also experience problems (slow acceleration, limited fast charging). The degradation is nowhere near as bad as the old Leafs, though.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  There are hundreds of millions of people in the world who would happily accept that car instead of what they are using. An old Model S still looks great.

ip26 6y ago

I think it will be really interesting to see what the residual value of the old battery will be. Could be really high- 50% original capacity is a problem for cars but not for grid storage (if the price reflects remaining capacity)

rhodozelia 6y ago
50% capacity for energy storage might be ok for Home gamers but no utility scale project is going to spend all the money on permitting, construction and the rest of the power infrastructure and then get batteries that are beat up.
- phreeza 6y ago
  It's impossible to say without knowing actual prices and doing the math. If a profit can be made, most likely someone will do it.
  - rhodozelia 6y ago
    This is a good point, but I’m thinking a higher return will be earned with new batteries than used ones. I guess we’ll see in 10 years If there are utility scale grid storage with used batteries!
    - ip26 6y ago
      If everybody wrote off the used batteries, then the price of used batteries would be practically nothing. And then somebody would say, Gee, you mean I can buy 1MWh of old Nissan Leaf batteries for $1,000...? An application will be found, or they will be recycled, whichever has better economics.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  I fail to see how permitting, etc. has anything to do with battery capacity. The only thing that will matter is price per kWh of storage and if used batteries can be sourced, binned and serviced reliably.

CameronNemo 6y ago

Maybe the replacement battery will have better tech!

magicalhippo 6y ago
AFAIK the main problem with the Leaf battery is that it doesn't have active thermal management[1]. I guess it's possible one could make a replacement battery pack which has an internal cooling loop, but it would be quite limited in how much heat it could get rid of through the battery case body without external radiators. Of course better batteries might heat up less when used or charged, due to lower internal resistance, but that still leaves really hot or freezing days. [1]: https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/31/does-the-new-62-kwh-leaf-battery-have-an-additional-fan-for-cooling/ https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/31/does-the-new-62-kwh-leaf...
- m463 6y ago
  ha, not really. The main problem(s) with the leaf are - it charges to 100% every time (unless you dig into a menu, turn on analytics and switch to 80%) I never knew a leaf driver that figured this out. - the battery size is very small, so you need a full charge to get anywhere reliably and/or drain it very low. - to put any kind of mileage on the car, you need to cycle the battery MANY times. (one cycle might be a day's driving on the leaf, but one cycle on a tesla is a week's driving or more) I think the leaf would be a perfect car with up to 20 miles of daily driving. (I owned the same car as OP)
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    > it charges to 100% every time Ah, I hadn't picked up on this. My BMW i3 has a built-in buffer so what shows as 100% on the dash is actually about 80%, and similarly for 0% (I verified through the raw data). Doing true "0-100" definitely does not do the battery any favors.
    - goodcanadian 6y ago
      The leaf also has a built in buffer like that though I don't know the exact numbers.

r00fus 6y ago

An EV inverter for $200 can allow your car to power your refrigerator + router/phone/laptops for many hours (days for a LR Tesla).

dawnerd 6y ago
A powerwall has what, 12ish KW usable (less in reality) which a single one can power a house for for up to a day if you're careful about what you're using. If you scale that up to the 75KW+ batteries being put into EVs today buying an inverter could be a good investment if you live in an area with frequent power outages (or a cabin or whatnot). There was also some talk about Teslas being able to send power back to the house with the new HPWC - not sure if that ever happened.
- adrianN 6y ago
  My two person household uses maybe two kWh per day.
  - Ma8ee 6y ago
    I find that very unlikely if you have any appliances at all. Multiple it by ten and I might start to believe you. For reference, right now we, granted in a four person household and electric heating in the coldest winter month, are using around 100 kWh per day. Even when the house is unoccupied in the summer the consumption is around 3.5 kWh per day. That is probably mostly just a fridge and two freezers.
    - adrianN 6y ago
      From May 2019 to January 2020 we used 706kWh. I have a fridge but no other appliances that constantly draw power. I don't heat electrically, but I cook using electricity. I run the washing machine about once a week or so and hang-dry the clothes. I guess I've used a bit more electricity during the last year because I worked from home more, but I doubt it's a factor 10. 100kWh per day would cost more than I pay for rent...

anovikov 6y ago

I think, there are also better compatible batteries nowadays, so if you buy a new one, you get a better car?

xbmcuser 6y ago

With how much the prices of batteries have come down in the last decade and the battery improvements. Nissan should give a cheap battery replacement to people that want it. This guy upgraded his himself https://thedriven.io/2020/11/04/nissan-leaf-owner-upgrades-ev-battery-for-under-a3500/ https://thedriven.io/2020/11/04/nissan-leaf-owner-upgrades-e...

mobilemidget 6y ago

On the radio the other day there was a car show and they were talking about costs for battery replacements (and then it was advised to replace board computer, managing the batteries too) for a Tesla, I was shocked by the costs. I don't recall the exact but he was 30k+ euro lighter. I was interested in a electric car, but interest dropped significantly after hearing that. Maybe I don't know enough about cars to compare to regular gas cars maintenance costs.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
What does ut cost to replace an engine on a BMW? Thats probably thr closest equivalent
- Multicomp 6y ago
  According to this internet anecdote, up to $10,000 or so for parts and labor which is about what I'd expect. https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080401174600AAbrM6m https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080401174600A...
  - brianwawok 6y ago
    Tesla goal is to get battery replacement cost down to 4-7k. I think right now it’s 13k? So maybe a tad more than a BMW engine but falling fast.
  - aucontraire 6y ago
    Maybe back in 2011 when that was posted, if the swap was for a second hand engine out of a crashed donor car that happened to be on-hand at the independent workshop where the job was carried out. I'd wager a guess that you'd be looking at well north of $30k for putting in a brand new engine in a Tesla-bracket BMW of semi-recent vintage.
    - bsagdiyev 6y ago
      Anecdote but even back 4 or so years ago I got a similar quote (10k) to replace a BMW engine with a new crate motor at the dealership. Let’s not make assumptions.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago

I suspect the bottom end of the market is going to disappear. Right now I could buy a car for £1000. It won't be great but it would be good enough to get somebody too and from work and the shops. That won't be feasible when a new battery costs £5000 or more.

brianwawok 6y ago
New or used? In the US the realistic floor for a new car is 20k. A few smart cars and such for less, but not anything sold seriously.
- sergiosgc 6y ago
  Is this real? In Europe you can get a Fiat Panda, brand new, for 9k€. Smallish engine, barebones interior, but overall a pretty decent car.
  - brianwawok 6y ago
    Yes. Cheapest Honda 21k https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/build-and-price#panel-sort-heading-1 https://automobiles.honda.com/tools/build-and-price#panel-so... Cheapest Ford $19,995 https://shop.ford.com/showroom/?linktype=brand&intcmp=hp-showbb#/ https://shop.ford.com/showroom/?linktype=brand&intcmp=hp-sho... Those budget brands generally don’t have dealers here. Like I said you can maybe find a weird budget dealer somewhere, but it’s well under 1% if sales volume. Low budget people typically buy 3-15 year old versions of these cars (which is easily under 10k cost).
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      You picked a brand that is a hallmark of upper middle class conspicuous consumption and a brand that doesn't make economy cars (for the North American market) anymore. The Mitsubishi Mirage, Nissan Versa and Chevy Spark (hatchbacks comparable to the small European cars the GP mentioned) MSRP at under 15k.

kakoni 6y ago

How much is the new battery in Holland?

Dumblydorr 6y ago

I've got a 13 year old Prius and its battery is still working! I did have to replace its coolant pump a few years back, but it's still working after 174k, and it's a 2008 battery.

aembleton 6y ago
I also drive a 2008 Prius with the original battery. Only things I've had to replace after 180k miles is 12v battery, oil, oil filter, air filter, tyres, wiper blades, lights, brake pads and hand brake cable. Basically things that regularly need changing, although the hand brake cable is probably the exception to that. Most reliable car I've ever owned.

Misteur-Z 6y ago

There are a few Teslas with over 500,000 miles! They have a leader board but I can't find an up to date version. https://twitter.com/TeslaMiles https://twitter.com/TeslaMiles https://insideevs.com/news/339110/highest-mileage-tesla-now-has-over-420000-miles/ https://insideevs.com/news/339110/highest-mileage-tesla-now-... https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-record-mileage-900000-kilometers https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-record-mileage-900000-ki...

akgerber 6y ago

My parents ran their 2004 Prius until last year and it had zero mechanical problems— it was just old, and the parts that were failing and uneconomical to fix were related to interior trim degradation.

Shivetya 6y ago

My issue is I always like the next best thing. What that takes the form of isn't always obvious even to those who know me. Some are making mock fun with me over the fact my Tesla is nearing three years as I do tend so swap nearly every other year if not earlier. However from my 17 Volt to my 18 Tesla 3 I am now only considering BEVs, I really cannot reason myself back into a petrol powered car. With motorcycles there is no real alternative if you want to travel. For the most part they are still in "Leaf" tech with only dipping their toes into liquid cooling the pack and or motor. Worse is that most are useless for commuting as they don't have storage space or wind protection; protection which would improve their aerodynamics. Late 2021 promises to have a much wider selection and 2022 should be a watershed year for EVs. Car wise I would love a good four seat convertible option. To me the EV power and open air travel were just meant to go together, too bad VW doesn't see fit to bring back the Beetle in that form as both previous incarnations were ideal for EV

WorldMaker 6y ago

I'm interested in this as well. The overall median and mean ages of an EV with their first owner is still way above the decades lasting 3 year ICE mean. This doesn't seem to be just an "early adopter effect" as the "neophilia" of "early adopters" you would think would trend the other way to a shorter first owner life. If the increased first owner life of EVs remains as more "normal" people buy in, that implies there may be a major shift in the secondary/used markets and that may be fascinating to watch. It might possibly be a hugely surprising (to some) secondary effect of an EV transition. There's a lot of jobs in the used market, and such a big shift could disrupt those jobs quite a bit. (I've got a 2012 Chevy Volt myself and don't feel a lot of pressure to replace it any time before the 15-year warranty on the drive chain/battery. I probably wouldn't replace the battery, as the small bit of pressure I do feel is that it is about time to get rid of the compromise of having an ICE generator backup I hardly/never use and move to a full proper EV.)