I think ORMs are useful only to help provide a direct 1-1 statically typed interface to the underlying db functionality in the language of choice (example java

I think ORMs are useful only to help provide a direct 1-1 statically typed interface to the underlying db functionality in the language of choice (example java <-> postgresql ORM) ie. select(User.UserId, ...).From(User); etc. Any more abstraction/generalization and it starts to suck. ORM for java <-> SQL databases (as a whole) are still fine as long as it allows for specialized operations on your sql db choice (say postgres specific functionality not available on mysql), but as ORMs start to get more ambitious by hiding away the actual SQL queries, things go south (looking at you hibernate). Programmers SHOULD know SQL and if they don't, they NEED to learn it. It isn't the ORMs job to abstract it away. That's a recipe for disaster