7 ms·

ML is really good at picking up anomalies, and that is scary if, say, law enforcement or prosecutors are doing dragnet surveillance for anomalies in order to dr

ML is really good at picking up anomalies, and that is scary if, say, law enforcement or prosecutors are doing dragnet surveillance for anomalies in order to drum up charges.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
it's inherently scary if one is somewhat anomalous in behavior.
- Wistar 6y ago
  Indeed. Witness all the folks who insisted Amanda Knox was guilty because she didn't act and look as they thought she should were she innocent.
exporectomy 6y ago
They already do that with their human brains. I've been stopped by the police for: - Sitting in a parked car in a suburban street for too long. - Going shopping at 2am. - Walking under a bridge at night. It's OK as long as they quickly realize you're harmless and leave you alone.
- the8472 6y ago
  Human brains tend to be stateful, they can be talked to. And they're only deployed at small scale. AIs don't update and can be deployed at scale.
  - kordlessagain 6y ago
    > AIs don't update Currently.
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  Policing in the USA, to a nearby outsider, appears to be more about enforcing societal norms than safety or laws. It seems to me they harass anyone they perceive to be abnormal. As a delightfully abnormal human, I'm very glad I was born just north of the 49th parallel. It's not perfect, but I do feel free to be myself.
  - sneak 6y ago
    As a weird person who grew up in the USA (and eventually left for just this reason), I can attest to the accuracy of this analysis. I even wrote about it recently: https://sneak.berlin/20200628/the-problem-with-police-in-america/ https://sneak.berlin/20200628/the-problem-with-police-in-ame...
    - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
      This is just wrong on so many levels. You even included the widely debunked (even by her own colleagues!) Nikole Hannah-Jones 1619 project lies. Cops do not care if you are “weird”. Police do in fact exist to enforce the law. It really is that simple.
      - inefficient 6y ago
        Well that's just blatantly not true. They aren't even required to know the laws and can enforce laws that they think exist even if they do not. See Heien vs North Carolina. Police exist to "keep the peace." The question is whose peace are they keeping. Well I suppose the reaction of police at the Jan. 6 insurrection vs that of the BLM protests tells us a little. Or the union busting police did in the past. Or blocking the polls for minorities. But it absolutely isn't "that simple."
        kortilla 6y ago
        > Well I suppose the reaction of police at the Jan. 6 insurrection vs that of the BLM protests tells us a little. They shot a woman in the neck. What’s the difference you’re trying to portray?
      - dualthro 6y ago
        Police murdered this kid for being weird: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elijah_McClain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elijah_McClain
      - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
- 14 6y ago
  We have had the RCMP racially profiling native Americans and picking on people of color. The exact reason they are not supposed to pull you over for offenses as you mentioned but need a reason such as speeding or failure to follow traffic laws. It's NOT OKAY and should not be considered normal for them to do.
amelius 6y ago
How do you train for anomalies, given that the data is widely different every time? Or in other words, how do you obtain a dataset that is representative?
- simple_phrases 6y ago
  I'd argue that it is often difficult to impossible, but that doesn't stop companies from making AI/ML products for law enforcement. I'm someone who regularly trips up my bank's weird behavior detection system, and have my debit card frozen more often than it should be because of my purchasing patterns and travel.
gvd 6y ago
This is such a general bs statement
kyleblarson 6y ago
What is even scarier is the likelihood of law enforcement agencies buying tech from fly-by-night companies who will use all of the buzzwords in their sales pitches (AI, ML, big data, etc) but who have no real knowledge of such things and are just selling a shit product that will entrap innocents.
- tyfon 6y ago
  You will end up with "Computer says no" situations if there are no knowledgable humans that review the decisions from the models. It's really no different in banks but they are regulated and must provide proper reasoning to denied customers for the models they use in my country. It's not enough to say "your score is too low". It's very easy to create artificial stupidity!

ML is really good at picking up anomalies, and that is scary if, say, law enforcement or prosecutors are doing dragnet surveillance for anomalies in order to drum up charges.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago

it's inherently scary if one is somewhat anomalous in behavior.

Wistar 6y ago
Indeed. Witness all the folks who insisted Amanda Knox was guilty because she didn't act and look as they thought she should were she innocent.

exporectomy 6y ago

They already do that with their human brains. I've been stopped by the police for: - Sitting in a parked car in a suburban street for too long. - Going shopping at 2am. - Walking under a bridge at night. It's OK as long as they quickly realize you're harmless and leave you alone.

the8472 6y ago
Human brains tend to be stateful, they can be talked to. And they're only deployed at small scale. AIs don't update and can be deployed at scale.
- kordlessagain 6y ago
  > AIs don't update Currently.
ficklepickle 6y ago
Policing in the USA, to a nearby outsider, appears to be more about enforcing societal norms than safety or laws. It seems to me they harass anyone they perceive to be abnormal. As a delightfully abnormal human, I'm very glad I was born just north of the 49th parallel. It's not perfect, but I do feel free to be myself.
- sneak 6y ago
  As a weird person who grew up in the USA (and eventually left for just this reason), I can attest to the accuracy of this analysis. I even wrote about it recently: https://sneak.berlin/20200628/the-problem-with-police-in-america/ https://sneak.berlin/20200628/the-problem-with-police-in-ame...
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    This is just wrong on so many levels. You even included the widely debunked (even by her own colleagues!) Nikole Hannah-Jones 1619 project lies. Cops do not care if you are “weird”. Police do in fact exist to enforce the law. It really is that simple.
    - inefficient 6y ago
      Well that's just blatantly not true. They aren't even required to know the laws and can enforce laws that they think exist even if they do not. See Heien vs North Carolina. Police exist to "keep the peace." The question is whose peace are they keeping. Well I suppose the reaction of police at the Jan. 6 insurrection vs that of the BLM protests tells us a little. Or the union busting police did in the past. Or blocking the polls for minorities. But it absolutely isn't "that simple."
      - kortilla 6y ago
        > Well I suppose the reaction of police at the Jan. 6 insurrection vs that of the BLM protests tells us a little. They shot a woman in the neck. What’s the difference you’re trying to portray?
    - dualthro 6y ago
      Police murdered this kid for being weird: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elijah_McClain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elijah_McClain
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
14 6y ago
We have had the RCMP racially profiling native Americans and picking on people of color. The exact reason they are not supposed to pull you over for offenses as you mentioned but need a reason such as speeding or failure to follow traffic laws. It's NOT OKAY and should not be considered normal for them to do.

amelius 6y ago

How do you train for anomalies, given that the data is widely different every time? Or in other words, how do you obtain a dataset that is representative?

simple_phrases 6y ago
I'd argue that it is often difficult to impossible, but that doesn't stop companies from making AI/ML products for law enforcement. I'm someone who regularly trips up my bank's weird behavior detection system, and have my debit card frozen more often than it should be because of my purchasing patterns and travel.

gvd 6y ago

This is such a general bs statement

kyleblarson 6y ago

What is even scarier is the likelihood of law enforcement agencies buying tech from fly-by-night companies who will use all of the buzzwords in their sales pitches (AI, ML, big data, etc) but who have no real knowledge of such things and are just selling a shit product that will entrap innocents.

tyfon 6y ago
You will end up with "Computer says no" situations if there are no knowledgable humans that review the decisions from the models. It's really no different in banks but they are regulated and must provide proper reasoning to denied customers for the models they use in my country. It's not enough to say "your score is too low". It's very easy to create artificial stupidity!