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This is a common theme in my workplace. Especially with everyone working remote and odd hours these days. We use both email and Slack, but most conversations te

This is a common theme in my workplace. Especially with everyone working remote and odd hours these days. We use both email and Slack, but most conversations tend to be asynchronous regardless and I frequently wonder why we even have an instant messenger. That said, I find that even if a message is asynchronous, it is much easier to track conversation flow via slack than email. Reply chains and indentations get messy and become an eye sore to navigate. If I write, "Hey, did you do that thing?" and don't hear "Yep, it's done" for a day, I can more easily see the flow of thought in Slack. Though, I would appreciate a more standardized practice around, "If Slack says you are available, we can expect you to respond relatively quickly" than seeing a green dot and not hearing back for hours or a day. I still hate "Hello" and "Hi" messages though. It baits a response without putting in any groundwork for me to understand what a person wants. Just say what you need. > Them: "Hello" > Me: "What's up?" > Them: "Are you available now?" > Me: "Yes... What do you need?" Flows like this make me come off as an asshole because I'm annoyed by the tedious nature of the conversation. Tell me what you need so I can know how to respond. > Them: "Hey, when you have minute, can you take a look at the database?" > Me: "Sure thing. Can do in about 15 minutes" ^ this is way easier to work with for me

djrogers 6y ago
> I would appreciate a more standardized practice around, "If Slack says you are available, we can expect you to respond relatively quickly" than seeing a green dot and not hearing back for hours or a day. No. Slack does not know if I’m at my desk, busy, or even taking a protected me-time lunch break. And no, you cannot expect me to manually update my status in Slack, Teams, Zoom, and every other communication tool I’m forced to use every time I walk upstairs to nuke my coffee or use the bathroom. Just ask your question, and wait fir a response. If you need me RIGHT NOW, then pick up your dang phone and call me.
- kempbellt 6y ago
  Slack sets you to "Away/Offline" after 10 minutes of inactivity by default, and by "relatively quickly" I mean, within an hour or two. If you can't close Slack or update your status to let people know you are unavailable for long periods of time, what is the point of being on Slack? Or a team for that matter? Barring an emergency, I'm not going to call someone directly because they're too busy working to (team)work. If you can't play nicely on a team then maybe a different job is for you?
  - rafael09ed 6y ago
    > Barring an emergency, I'm not going to call someone directly because they're too busy working to (team)work. I think that's the point. Very rarely do you need someone to respond immediately.
    - qw 6y ago
      I agree. I have mail notifications available, but nobody is expecting me to actually answer a mail the same minute it is sent. If I am working on something, I will wait until I have time for it. Why should Slack be different? It's just another asynchronous communication tool. The conversations have the possibility to be synchronous, but that is up to the users's involved. As others have pointed out, I reserve the right to be decide how I spend my time. A team player should not expect to be able to decide how my time is spent. If I am busy and someone just sends a "Hi" message without any context, i will ignore it until I have finished my task unless I have a reason to suspect that it is urgent.
  - joshmanders 6y ago
    > If you can't play nicely on a team then maybe a different job is for you? This is a bullshit copout. It's a cultural issue if people cannot be respectful of their co-workers time. It is very common that if something is important to use important modes of communication such as phone calls. My team for example is very asynchronous because that is our culture. Our team is located all over the country and some people in different parts of the world. If any of us needs each other during our typical work hours and its important, it's usually a call over our VOIP system. NONE of us take Slack as an immediate answer messaging platform.
    - kempbellt 6y ago
      No, the bullshit copout is showing that you are available when you are not, to give the illusion that you are working <- which more a cultural issue than being disrespectful of people's time in my opinion. I have nothing but respect for my coworkers personal time. I couldn't care less, personally, if you need to take hours, days, weeks, or even months off of work for whatever reason. Do what you need to do. However, if you are on Slack and suggesting to people you are available when you are not, that is bullshit to me. It's not difficult to close the app or update your status to put in an ounce of teamwork so people know how to work around your actual availability.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Indeed, most people understand that Slack is not guaranteed timely delivery and knows that unless you get a reply the message may not have been received. Usually we just tap the thumb emoji to acknowledge we read and understood the request.
  - dllthomas 6y ago
    I added a loading indicator emoji at my workplace (and my previous one).
treeman79 6y ago
A new one for me is that work email is filled with security audit emails. Slack so far is not. I’ll open up my email, see if any subject lines are important, I’ll then go directly to service and get info there. I basically never open actual work emails ever. So tired of gotcha security
- upofadown 6y ago
  Stuff like that should be dumped to a dedicated folder. Maybe with an autodelete for messages older than a week.
  - isaachawley 6y ago
    Email filters are an office superpower.
birdyrooster 6y ago
If people do this to me I don’t make any rush to answer. If they want to drag out the conversation it is on them. All my replies are async because I have ADHD and will likely be distracted by something else before you write your follow up question. I can’t sit and stare at a chat window waiting for dialogue, it just won’t happen.
AdmiralAsshat 6y ago
I disagree, because putting the whole request in at the outset puts the responsibility on me, even if I'm not available. Consider the following exchange: Co-worker: Hi, AA. Me: Hello. Co-worker: I need some help, are you available? Co-worker: Well, I'm actually past my shift, and you probably saw me available because I was reading an email. Can I hit you up in the morning? Coworker: Sure. ---VS----- Co-worker: Hi, AA. We have a client with a problem, and I could use your help. Please do X, Y, and Z. Okay thanks, bye. Next Morning, Boss: Why hasn't anyone responded to the client yet!?! Co-worker: Gee, I dunno. I told AA about it hours ago...
- saghm 6y ago
  If you have a boss that conditionally blames you for messages you haven't seen based on the content of those messages, I think you have a bigger problem than Slack decorum.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  People understand that chat/ messaging/ Slack is asynchronous. There is no onus placed upon you here except perhaps in your hypothetical head. Far more likely is: > Co-worker: Hi, AA. We have a client with a problem, and I could use your help. Please do X, Y, and Z. Okay thanks, bye. > AA: Crickets... > Co-worker (5 minutes later): You there? > AA: Crickets... > Co-worker: Oops, just noticed it's 5:54, I should have known you'd have punched out already, I got it.
- jt2190 6y ago
  You’re describing a behavior that is highly frowned upon in the Israeli Defense Force, here described to Joel Spolsky by Tamir Nitzan: > As for the expressions (pronounced “rosh katan” – little head, vs. “rosh gadol” – big head). This expression comes from the IDF, and as most military language, doesn’t quite translate into normal language. A “rosh katan” (literally “little head”, and I actually think it is the original expression which derived most likely from “pinhead”, the contrast later came in as a complement) is someone that does exactly what he’s told. >[An] example: you tell a soldier to “go notify so-and-so that we will be ready for inspection at 1600”. By 1700 you’re curious, so you ask him “did you notify?”. [A “rosh katan’s”] answer might be “well I called his office and left a message”. A “rosh gadol” would likely say: “I called his office but got his voice mail, so I left a message. I called back an hour later but still got voice mail, so I called his cell phone and left a message there too. I tried him again an hour after that and he assured me he will be here by 1600. I called him again 20 minutes ago and he said he was on his way but stuck in traffic” (a real “rosh gadol” would have notified his C.O. of all this without being asked of course). https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/06/news-45/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/06/news-45/
ogre_codes 6y ago
> "If Slack says you are available, we can expect you to respond relatively quickly" This means I am expected to manage my Slack status on a regular basis or deal with interruptions. Do I turn off Slack when I'm coding? If you expect relatively quick responses, that's unlikely when I'm in the zone. Should I turn off Slack and turn it back on when g You'll have about 2 minutes to catch me about once every 20 minutes. Usually I'm quite responsive, but sometimes I might be head down for an hour. Toggling my Slack status on and off 5-10 times per hour for that doesn't make sense.
acje 6y ago
I guess I could go something like «Hi I need one of you five people to give me some context on this topic I know little about right now so I can continue on my reasoning for what actions to take by the business to mitigate some problem” and just see who answers first. Now five people are context switching for no reason and I’m a legit problem. When I don’t know what I need. Synchronous communication is very efficient because of faster feedback loops. This is agile and some job types can have a lot of this. Like architects and management. And yes, I hate doing it. Pre March 2020 a strategically timed coffee machine meeting could fix some of these situations with less friction and better social outcomes for future cooperation.
- acje 6y ago
  Actually I typically say “when do you have some time discussing X?” And sent it to one or two people. Personally I don’t like the phone and it works bad with urls... I find it rather common for techies not to like the phone too much.
satisfice 6y ago
Although I am an advocate of the “just say hi” school of IM, your message above is a constructive way of explaining how you’d like me to interact with you.

djrogers 6y ago

> I would appreciate a more standardized practice around, "If Slack says you are available, we can expect you to respond relatively quickly" than seeing a green dot and not hearing back for hours or a day. No. Slack does not know if I’m at my desk, busy, or even taking a protected me-time lunch break. And no, you cannot expect me to manually update my status in Slack, Teams, Zoom, and every other communication tool I’m forced to use every time I walk upstairs to nuke my coffee or use the bathroom. Just ask your question, and wait fir a response. If you need me RIGHT NOW, then pick up your dang phone and call me.

kempbellt 6y ago
Slack sets you to "Away/Offline" after 10 minutes of inactivity by default, and by "relatively quickly" I mean, within an hour or two. If you can't close Slack or update your status to let people know you are unavailable for long periods of time, what is the point of being on Slack? Or a team for that matter? Barring an emergency, I'm not going to call someone directly because they're too busy working to (team)work. If you can't play nicely on a team then maybe a different job is for you?
- rafael09ed 6y ago
  > Barring an emergency, I'm not going to call someone directly because they're too busy working to (team)work. I think that's the point. Very rarely do you need someone to respond immediately.
  - qw 6y ago
    I agree. I have mail notifications available, but nobody is expecting me to actually answer a mail the same minute it is sent. If I am working on something, I will wait until I have time for it. Why should Slack be different? It's just another asynchronous communication tool. The conversations have the possibility to be synchronous, but that is up to the users's involved. As others have pointed out, I reserve the right to be decide how I spend my time. A team player should not expect to be able to decide how my time is spent. If I am busy and someone just sends a "Hi" message without any context, i will ignore it until I have finished my task unless I have a reason to suspect that it is urgent.
- joshmanders 6y ago
  > If you can't play nicely on a team then maybe a different job is for you? This is a bullshit copout. It's a cultural issue if people cannot be respectful of their co-workers time. It is very common that if something is important to use important modes of communication such as phone calls. My team for example is very asynchronous because that is our culture. Our team is located all over the country and some people in different parts of the world. If any of us needs each other during our typical work hours and its important, it's usually a call over our VOIP system. NONE of us take Slack as an immediate answer messaging platform.
  - kempbellt 6y ago
    No, the bullshit copout is showing that you are available when you are not, to give the illusion that you are working <- which more a cultural issue than being disrespectful of people's time in my opinion. I have nothing but respect for my coworkers personal time. I couldn't care less, personally, if you need to take hours, days, weeks, or even months off of work for whatever reason. Do what you need to do. However, if you are on Slack and suggesting to people you are available when you are not, that is bullshit to me. It's not difficult to close the app or update your status to put in an ounce of teamwork so people know how to work around your actual availability.
ogre_codes 6y ago
Indeed, most people understand that Slack is not guaranteed timely delivery and knows that unless you get a reply the message may not have been received. Usually we just tap the thumb emoji to acknowledge we read and understood the request.
- dllthomas 6y ago
  I added a loading indicator emoji at my workplace (and my previous one).

treeman79 6y ago

A new one for me is that work email is filled with security audit emails. Slack so far is not. I’ll open up my email, see if any subject lines are important, I’ll then go directly to service and get info there. I basically never open actual work emails ever. So tired of gotcha security

upofadown 6y ago
Stuff like that should be dumped to a dedicated folder. Maybe with an autodelete for messages older than a week.
- isaachawley 6y ago
  Email filters are an office superpower.

birdyrooster 6y ago

If people do this to me I don’t make any rush to answer. If they want to drag out the conversation it is on them. All my replies are async because I have ADHD and will likely be distracted by something else before you write your follow up question. I can’t sit and stare at a chat window waiting for dialogue, it just won’t happen.

AdmiralAsshat 6y ago

I disagree, because putting the whole request in at the outset puts the responsibility on me, even if I'm not available. Consider the following exchange: Co-worker: Hi, AA. Me: Hello. Co-worker: I need some help, are you available? Co-worker: Well, I'm actually past my shift, and you probably saw me available because I was reading an email. Can I hit you up in the morning? Coworker: Sure. ---VS----- Co-worker: Hi, AA. We have a client with a problem, and I could use your help. Please do X, Y, and Z. Okay thanks, bye. Next Morning, Boss: Why hasn't anyone responded to the client yet!?! Co-worker: Gee, I dunno. I told AA about it hours ago...

saghm 6y ago
If you have a boss that conditionally blames you for messages you haven't seen based on the content of those messages, I think you have a bigger problem than Slack decorum.
ogre_codes 6y ago
People understand that chat/ messaging/ Slack is asynchronous. There is no onus placed upon you here except perhaps in your hypothetical head. Far more likely is: > Co-worker: Hi, AA. We have a client with a problem, and I could use your help. Please do X, Y, and Z. Okay thanks, bye. > AA: Crickets... > Co-worker (5 minutes later): You there? > AA: Crickets... > Co-worker: Oops, just noticed it's 5:54, I should have known you'd have punched out already, I got it.
jt2190 6y ago
You’re describing a behavior that is highly frowned upon in the Israeli Defense Force, here described to Joel Spolsky by Tamir Nitzan: > As for the expressions (pronounced “rosh katan” – little head, vs. “rosh gadol” – big head). This expression comes from the IDF, and as most military language, doesn’t quite translate into normal language. A “rosh katan” (literally “little head”, and I actually think it is the original expression which derived most likely from “pinhead”, the contrast later came in as a complement) is someone that does exactly what he’s told. >[An] example: you tell a soldier to “go notify so-and-so that we will be ready for inspection at 1600”. By 1700 you’re curious, so you ask him “did you notify?”. [A “rosh katan’s”] answer might be “well I called his office and left a message”. A “rosh gadol” would likely say: “I called his office but got his voice mail, so I left a message. I called back an hour later but still got voice mail, so I called his cell phone and left a message there too. I tried him again an hour after that and he assured me he will be here by 1600. I called him again 20 minutes ago and he said he was on his way but stuck in traffic” (a real “rosh gadol” would have notified his C.O. of all this without being asked of course). https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/06/news-45/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/06/news-45/

ogre_codes 6y ago

> "If Slack says you are available, we can expect you to respond relatively quickly" This means I am expected to manage my Slack status on a regular basis or deal with interruptions. Do I turn off Slack when I'm coding? If you expect relatively quick responses, that's unlikely when I'm in the zone. Should I turn off Slack and turn it back on when g You'll have about 2 minutes to catch me about once every 20 minutes. Usually I'm quite responsive, but sometimes I might be head down for an hour. Toggling my Slack status on and off 5-10 times per hour for that doesn't make sense.

acje 6y ago

I guess I could go something like «Hi I need one of you five people to give me some context on this topic I know little about right now so I can continue on my reasoning for what actions to take by the business to mitigate some problem” and just see who answers first. Now five people are context switching for no reason and I’m a legit problem. When I don’t know what I need. Synchronous communication is very efficient because of faster feedback loops. This is agile and some job types can have a lot of this. Like architects and management. And yes, I hate doing it. Pre March 2020 a strategically timed coffee machine meeting could fix some of these situations with less friction and better social outcomes for future cooperation.

acje 6y ago
Actually I typically say “when do you have some time discussing X?” And sent it to one or two people. Personally I don’t like the phone and it works bad with urls... I find it rather common for techies not to like the phone too much.

satisfice 6y ago

Although I am an advocate of the “just say hi” school of IM, your message above is a constructive way of explaining how you’d like me to interact with you.