5 ms·

>assault on the capitol; insurrection; attempted assassination I just want to point out the two problems with the rhetoric that mass-media and you are using to

>assault on the capitol; insurrection; attempted assassination I just want to point out the two problems with the rhetoric that mass-media and you are using to describe this event: 1. These words confer explosions, gunfire, and mass loss of life. In using these words, you are conjuring extremely violent images within the minds of your listeners. When your listeners discover the truth of the event, that the images you've associated with the event do not match what actually happened, your listeners feel manipulated, they feel you're trying to deceive them, and you lose credibility. 2. If enough people keep parroting these particular words to describe this event, the meanings of these words become diluted. For example, prior to this event at the capitol, if you said "terrorist attack", my mind would imagine men wearing balaclavas, wielding AK's, beheading people on video, gassing villages filled with innocent families, scattering them as refugees across the globe. But now, if we accept this event at the capitol as a "terrorist attack", now I don't know if you're talking about a guy smiling and waving as he holds a podium, or if you mean a Wahabbi extremist raping a Yazidi woman after putting a bullet in her son's head. Imagine this woman recounting her rape and the murder of her family, "I experienced a horrific terrorist attack." And then there's you, in referring to some guy taking a selfie at a politician's desk, "I witnessed a horrific terrorist attack." Please, choose more precise, more honest words.

Thorrez 6y ago
I don't disagree with your overall point. But you're not making a very fair comparison. The guy holding the podium was not the worst part of the attack on the capitol.
- VoodooJuJu 6y ago
  What was the worst part of the event at the capitol? What do you think would make a fair comparison?
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    > Guns, Brass Knuckles, Homemade Napalm: Read Some of the Documents From Arrests After the Capitol Riot https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/01/11/guns-brass-knuckles-homemade-napalm-read-some-of-the-documents-from-arrests-after-the-capitol-riot/ https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/01/11/guns-brass-knuckles...
  - belltaco 6y ago
    Just a couple https://v.redd.it/ybbshl1ujia61 https://v.redd.it/ybbshl1ujia61 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJOgGsC0G9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJOgGsC0G9U
gibrown 6y ago
Just because it sounds extreme doesn’t mean I am using the wrong words. Guns are not required for violence or murder to occur. Just because some people there were not trying to do either doesn’t mean that didn’t happen. Why do you feel the need to defend them by focusing on selfies? “Insurrection” is a violent attack on a government. “Assassination” is murdering a prominent person for political reasons. > In charging papers, the FBI said that during the Capitol riot, Caldwell received Facebook messages from unspecified senders updating him of the location of lawmakers. When he posted a one-word message, “Inside,” he received exhortations and directions describing tunnels, doors and hallways, the FBI said. Some messages, according to the FBI, included, “Tom all legislators are down in the Tunnels 3floors down,” and “Go through back house chamber doors facing N left down hallway down steps.” Another message read: “All members are in the tunnels under capital seal them in. Turn on gas,” the FBI added. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/conspiracy-oath-keeper-arrest-capitol-riot/2021/01/19/fb84877a-5a4f-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/conspiracy...
ForHackernews 6y ago
> These words confer explosions, gunfire, and mass loss of life There were bombs planted at both Democratic and Republican party headquarters. One man was arrested with a pickup truck full of napalm. At least some subset of the Capitol rioters absolutely intended to cause "explosions, gunfire, and mass loss of life". I think you're being dishonest pretending this was only a bunch of goons posing for instagram. This is similar to the way people remember Columbine as a school shooting, but the two murderers actually built a large number of IEDs including propane tank bombs. If they hadn't been such incompetent bomb-builders, hundreds would have died and the event would be remembered as a bombing akin to Oklahoma City instead of mere mass-shooting.
disgruntledphd2 6y ago
> a guy smiling and waving as he holds a podium As a complete aside, I was amused that that photo even existed (he looks so happy with Nancy Pelosi's podium) and also completely unsurprised that he got arrested two days later.
gedy 6y ago
> If enough people keep parroting these particular words to describe this event, the meanings of these words become diluted. Agreed, though the hyperbole and shifting definitions seems intentional and effective in many cases, you see with this with terms "hate", "racism", "white supremacy", etc as well. When I was younger these had much more specific groups and frightening meanings! Makes me feel many using these terms so loosely today may have never run in to actual people these used to describe. (No this is not a defense of hatred/racism/white supremacy or other bad behavior).
thethethethe 6y ago
> These words confer explosions, gunfire, and mass loss of life. There were pipe bombs found. A guy had a car full of molotov cocktails. People were carrying guns and wearing body armor. Five people died. Its pretty surprising it didn't go much worse
- sneak 6y ago
  I guess what they're trying to say is that if this had been a real insurrection, the bombs, incendiary devices, and guns would have been used, and in volume. The fact that some were found, and basically none were used (none of the deaths were a result of people being shot by the rioters) indicates the level of seriousness we're dealing with here. This is not to say that they shouldn't face consequences: they should; what they did is seriously illegal and, more generally, bad and wrong. But it's terribly important to remember that what happened here was crime, not war.
  - thethethethe 6y ago
    Insurrection is not war. Insurrection is a violent uprising against a government, which is exactly what happened. The fact that explosive devices were not used, but were present, was likely a matter of luck, not intent. Besides these things are not required for something to be an insurrection. They could have been armed with screwdrivers and hammers and it would still be an insurrection, albeit a less extreme insurrection.

Thorrez 6y ago

I don't disagree with your overall point. But you're not making a very fair comparison. The guy holding the podium was not the worst part of the attack on the capitol.

VoodooJuJu 6y ago
What was the worst part of the event at the capitol? What do you think would make a fair comparison?
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  > Guns, Brass Knuckles, Homemade Napalm: Read Some of the Documents From Arrests After the Capitol Riot https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/01/11/guns-brass-knuckles-homemade-napalm-read-some-of-the-documents-from-arrests-after-the-capitol-riot/ https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/01/11/guns-brass-knuckles...
- belltaco 6y ago
  Just a couple https://v.redd.it/ybbshl1ujia61 https://v.redd.it/ybbshl1ujia61 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJOgGsC0G9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJOgGsC0G9U

gibrown 6y ago

Just because it sounds extreme doesn’t mean I am using the wrong words. Guns are not required for violence or murder to occur. Just because some people there were not trying to do either doesn’t mean that didn’t happen. Why do you feel the need to defend them by focusing on selfies? “Insurrection” is a violent attack on a government. “Assassination” is murdering a prominent person for political reasons. > In charging papers, the FBI said that during the Capitol riot, Caldwell received Facebook messages from unspecified senders updating him of the location of lawmakers. When he posted a one-word message, “Inside,” he received exhortations and directions describing tunnels, doors and hallways, the FBI said. Some messages, according to the FBI, included, “Tom all legislators are down in the Tunnels 3floors down,” and “Go through back house chamber doors facing N left down hallway down steps.” Another message read: “All members are in the tunnels under capital seal them in. Turn on gas,” the FBI added. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/conspiracy-oath-keeper-arrest-capitol-riot/2021/01/19/fb84877a-5a4f-11eb-8bcf-3877871c819d_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/conspiracy...

ForHackernews 6y ago

> These words confer explosions, gunfire, and mass loss of life There were bombs planted at both Democratic and Republican party headquarters. One man was arrested with a pickup truck full of napalm. At least some subset of the Capitol rioters absolutely intended to cause "explosions, gunfire, and mass loss of life". I think you're being dishonest pretending this was only a bunch of goons posing for instagram. This is similar to the way people remember Columbine as a school shooting, but the two murderers actually built a large number of IEDs including propane tank bombs. If they hadn't been such incompetent bomb-builders, hundreds would have died and the event would be remembered as a bombing akin to Oklahoma City instead of mere mass-shooting.

disgruntledphd2 6y ago

> a guy smiling and waving as he holds a podium As a complete aside, I was amused that that photo even existed (he looks so happy with Nancy Pelosi's podium) and also completely unsurprised that he got arrested two days later.

gedy 6y ago

> If enough people keep parroting these particular words to describe this event, the meanings of these words become diluted. Agreed, though the hyperbole and shifting definitions seems intentional and effective in many cases, you see with this with terms "hate", "racism", "white supremacy", etc as well. When I was younger these had much more specific groups and frightening meanings! Makes me feel many using these terms so loosely today may have never run in to actual people these used to describe. (No this is not a defense of hatred/racism/white supremacy or other bad behavior).

thethethethe 6y ago

> These words confer explosions, gunfire, and mass loss of life. There were pipe bombs found. A guy had a car full of molotov cocktails. People were carrying guns and wearing body armor. Five people died. Its pretty surprising it didn't go much worse

sneak 6y ago
I guess what they're trying to say is that if this had been a real insurrection, the bombs, incendiary devices, and guns would have been used, and in volume. The fact that some were found, and basically none were used (none of the deaths were a result of people being shot by the rioters) indicates the level of seriousness we're dealing with here. This is not to say that they shouldn't face consequences: they should; what they did is seriously illegal and, more generally, bad and wrong. But it's terribly important to remember that what happened here was crime, not war.
- thethethethe 6y ago
  Insurrection is not war. Insurrection is a violent uprising against a government, which is exactly what happened. The fact that explosive devices were not used, but were present, was likely a matter of luck, not intent. Besides these things are not required for something to be an insurrection. They could have been armed with screwdrivers and hammers and it would still be an insurrection, albeit a less extreme insurrection.