6 ms·

A bit off topic, but your example of parking spots probably isn't the best. There's been some calls to lower the kinda ludicrous parking requirements mandated b

A bit off topic, but your example of parking spots probably isn't the best. There's been some calls to lower the kinda ludicrous parking requirements mandated by local authorities

brewdad 6y ago
If the efforts to reduce parking requirements succeed, you can be sure that more units will be built with no parking lots at all (Profit$). We are seeing this in Portland where 20 unit apartment buildings are getting built with zero parking (or maybe 10 spaces available for additional rent). The end result, for now at least, is 30-40 more cars parked in the surrounding streets.
- ndiscussion 6y ago
  Can confirm, I lived in one of those apartments, now I'm very happy in a suburb. It's nice to be able to haul groceries to your place without walking 4 blocks from the car for each load.
  - username90 6y ago
    Typically in such neighborhoods in Europe the grocery store is no further than 4 blocks away, so you just walk and don't use a car. It works since the store doesn't have parking minimums either so don't take a lot of space, even if it is a fairly large one.
    - ferongr 6y ago
      Carrying 35kg of groceries sucks. Especially when it rains. Personally, I drive 2km to a larger store with underground parking instead of visiting the store two blocks away.
      - oblio 6y ago
        That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.
        epistasis 6y ago
        I've had a frustrating form of this conversation with so many Americans. The concept of buying less than 40L of soda at a time, because presumably they drink many liters per day, is hard to overcome for some. They literally will not believe that it is possible to but a days worth of groceries every day, and get fresh, quality food. But the more people saying that it can be done, and is a superior way to shop, the more likely we will convince them finally.
        mbg721 6y ago
        You can get a 2L bottle of soda for $3, or $1.29 each if you buy a multiple of 6 of them...
        impendia 6y ago
        In most American cities, going to the grocery store is kind of a pain. You have to drive somewhere, usually at least a mile or two. You have to find some place to park and walk across a huge parking lot. The store itself will be huge, if you're just getting three things you have to trek all the way across the store to retrieve them. And the lines at the checkout can be bad. As I mentioned in another comment, I had the opportunity to live for a year in a very walkable neighborhood, with an excellent grocery store. It was convenient, it was small, the food was high quality, checkout was lightning fast. I found myself going there nearly every day and it was wonderful. But once I needed to move back to a more car-centered city, the idea of doing this became once again unthinkable. Far too big of a chore to do daily.
        oblio 6y ago
        Yeah, you need the right environment. Going against the grain will only cause pain and suffering...
- lmm 6y ago
  I lived in London where new buildings are required to be zero parking - the thinking is that the roads are already congested enough and so anything that encourages bringing more cars in is bad for the city. It's a pretty good approach IMO, though I guess you need to combine it with something like Tokyo's rule that you can't buy a car unless you can show you have a parking space to register it to.
  - Reason077 6y ago
    Right, and this is typically in the form of a planning condition where residents waive their right to cheap on-street parking (ie: no resident’s parking permits). Smaller Central London buildings typically wouldn’t provide off-street parking anyway, there just isn’t space! Large, luxury developments often do still provide parking facilities, even in Central London. Transport for London sometimes makes attempts to get these reduced in size or eliminated, but hasn’t always succeeded.
    - olivermarks 6y ago
      The planning goal seems to be focused on a future where remote vehicles are summoned to convey the inhabitant 'on demand' from what I've heard. Permissions based travel with costs associated for emissions etc...
    - bluGill 6y ago
      London transition should focus on running a good, reliable system at low cost. London isn't the worst in the world, but they seem to be trying to be the most expensive.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  > If the efforts to reduce parking requirements succeed, you can be sure that more units will be built with no parking lots at all I'm having trouble seeing the problem here. :) Y'know what's even better for the environment than electric cars? No cars! I realize that living in California without a car is going to be difficult, but if you can manage it, you shouldn't have to pay for other people's parking spaces.
  - snypher 6y ago
    The thing is not everyone is able to manage it. By not providing for those people you ensure the parking problem becomes someone else's problem.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - Dylan16807 6y ago
      > providing for those people Which doesn't require that every single unit has parking. > you ensure the parking problem becomes someone else's problem It just becomes an attribute on the listing. This house has 3 bedrooms and parking. This house has 2 bedrooms and no parking.
  - elihu 6y ago
    That would be great if that was the result, but the more likely outcome is that the tenants own cars that are parked in neighboring blocks.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      That's why we shouldn't have any free parking in the first place. Parking spots should always be paid; they are not a public good. https://www.vox.com/2014/6/27/5849280/why-free-parking-is-bad-for-everyone https://www.vox.com/2014/6/27/5849280/why-free-parking-is-ba...
    - username90 6y ago
- adrianN 6y ago
  In Tokyo you need to have proof that you have a private parking space before you can register a car.

A bit off topic, but your example of parking spots probably isn't the best. There's been some calls to lower the kinda ludicrous parking requirements mandated by local authorities

brewdad 6y ago

If the efforts to reduce parking requirements succeed, you can be sure that more units will be built with no parking lots at all (Profit$). We are seeing this in Portland where 20 unit apartment buildings are getting built with zero parking (or maybe 10 spaces available for additional rent). The end result, for now at least, is 30-40 more cars parked in the surrounding streets.

ndiscussion 6y ago
Can confirm, I lived in one of those apartments, now I'm very happy in a suburb. It's nice to be able to haul groceries to your place without walking 4 blocks from the car for each load.
- username90 6y ago
  Typically in such neighborhoods in Europe the grocery store is no further than 4 blocks away, so you just walk and don't use a car. It works since the store doesn't have parking minimums either so don't take a lot of space, even if it is a fairly large one.
  - ferongr 6y ago
    Carrying 35kg of groceries sucks. Especially when it rains. Personally, I drive 2km to a larger store with underground parking instead of visiting the store two blocks away.
    - oblio 6y ago
      That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.
      - epistasis 6y ago
        I've had a frustrating form of this conversation with so many Americans. The concept of buying less than 40L of soda at a time, because presumably they drink many liters per day, is hard to overcome for some. They literally will not believe that it is possible to but a days worth of groceries every day, and get fresh, quality food. But the more people saying that it can be done, and is a superior way to shop, the more likely we will convince them finally.
        mbg721 6y ago
        You can get a 2L bottle of soda for $3, or $1.29 each if you buy a multiple of 6 of them...
        impendia 6y ago
        In most American cities, going to the grocery store is kind of a pain. You have to drive somewhere, usually at least a mile or two. You have to find some place to park and walk across a huge parking lot. The store itself will be huge, if you're just getting three things you have to trek all the way across the store to retrieve them. And the lines at the checkout can be bad. As I mentioned in another comment, I had the opportunity to live for a year in a very walkable neighborhood, with an excellent grocery store. It was convenient, it was small, the food was high quality, checkout was lightning fast. I found myself going there nearly every day and it was wonderful. But once I needed to move back to a more car-centered city, the idea of doing this became once again unthinkable. Far too big of a chore to do daily.
        oblio 6y ago
        Yeah, you need the right environment. Going against the grain will only cause pain and suffering...
lmm 6y ago
I lived in London where new buildings are required to be zero parking - the thinking is that the roads are already congested enough and so anything that encourages bringing more cars in is bad for the city. It's a pretty good approach IMO, though I guess you need to combine it with something like Tokyo's rule that you can't buy a car unless you can show you have a parking space to register it to.
- Reason077 6y ago
  Right, and this is typically in the form of a planning condition where residents waive their right to cheap on-street parking (ie: no resident’s parking permits). Smaller Central London buildings typically wouldn’t provide off-street parking anyway, there just isn’t space! Large, luxury developments often do still provide parking facilities, even in Central London. Transport for London sometimes makes attempts to get these reduced in size or eliminated, but hasn’t always succeeded.
  - olivermarks 6y ago
    The planning goal seems to be focused on a future where remote vehicles are summoned to convey the inhabitant 'on demand' from what I've heard. Permissions based travel with costs associated for emissions etc...
  - bluGill 6y ago
    London transition should focus on running a good, reliable system at low cost. London isn't the worst in the world, but they seem to be trying to be the most expensive.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
> If the efforts to reduce parking requirements succeed, you can be sure that more units will be built with no parking lots at all I'm having trouble seeing the problem here. :) Y'know what's even better for the environment than electric cars? No cars! I realize that living in California without a car is going to be difficult, but if you can manage it, you shouldn't have to pay for other people's parking spaces.
- snypher 6y ago
  The thing is not everyone is able to manage it. By not providing for those people you ensure the parking problem becomes someone else's problem.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Dylan16807 6y ago
    > providing for those people Which doesn't require that every single unit has parking. > you ensure the parking problem becomes someone else's problem It just becomes an attribute on the listing. This house has 3 bedrooms and parking. This house has 2 bedrooms and no parking.
- elihu 6y ago
  That would be great if that was the result, but the more likely outcome is that the tenants own cars that are parked in neighboring blocks.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    That's why we shouldn't have any free parking in the first place. Parking spots should always be paid; they are not a public good. https://www.vox.com/2014/6/27/5849280/why-free-parking-is-bad-for-everyone https://www.vox.com/2014/6/27/5849280/why-free-parking-is-ba...
  - username90 6y ago
adrianN 6y ago
In Tokyo you need to have proof that you have a private parking space before you can register a car.