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A staggering amount of buildings are built to code, and nothing more. If code says that there needs to be 1.5 parking spaces per bedroom for the complex, and t

A staggering amount of buildings are built to code, and nothing more. If code says that there needs to be 1.5 parking spaces per bedroom for the complex, and the complex has 80 bedrooms, you can bet there will be 120 parking spots. Apartment managers will be dragged kicking and screaming into offering chargers for cars. The best way to get chargers into apartment buildings is going to be a local mandate that they have a charger per X units.

neltnerb 6y ago
With the rare exception for when the expected marketing value of having those spots or tax subsidies make installing them appear to have a positive value. The exception that definitely proves the rule. Until it's mandatory in new construction it won't even start to become normal. I'm curious how street parking is supposed to work, that photo is hilarious but I imagine that on the streets of Boston where you'll get hit with a bat over trying to save a parking spot (or trying to use a saved parking spot, it's Boston in the winter). I have the feeling you're going to see better adoption in suburbs and lower density urban areas first because the range doesn't need to be so high but it's also not impossible to have a consistent parking space (or garage or driveway) that you can invest in improving. I'd probably have to get a special variance from the city to install an outlet in the sidewalk...
amluto 6y ago
Fortunately, the CalGreen code has some charging requirements: https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-green-code-2016/chapter/5/nonresidential-mandatory-measures#table_5.106.5.3.3 https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-green-code-2016/chapte... I think the requirements should be higher, but this is a start.
resonantjacket5 6y ago
A bit off topic, but your example of parking spots probably isn't the best. There's been some calls to lower the kinda ludicrous parking requirements mandated by local authorities
- brewdad 6y ago
  If the efforts to reduce parking requirements succeed, you can be sure that more units will be built with no parking lots at all (Profit$). We are seeing this in Portland where 20 unit apartment buildings are getting built with zero parking (or maybe 10 spaces available for additional rent). The end result, for now at least, is 30-40 more cars parked in the surrounding streets.
  - ndiscussion 6y ago
    Can confirm, I lived in one of those apartments, now I'm very happy in a suburb. It's nice to be able to haul groceries to your place without walking 4 blocks from the car for each load.
    - username90 6y ago
      Typically in such neighborhoods in Europe the grocery store is no further than 4 blocks away, so you just walk and don't use a car. It works since the store doesn't have parking minimums either so don't take a lot of space, even if it is a fairly large one.
      - ferongr 6y ago
        Carrying 35kg of groceries sucks. Especially when it rains. Personally, I drive 2km to a larger store with underground parking instead of visiting the store two blocks away.
        oblio 6y ago
        That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.
        6y ago
exhilaration 6y ago
It's going to be very hard to apply that mandate to existing construction. I feel like the best way to move forward is for charging companies like EVgo or Chargepoint (or a new HN company!) to approach building owners, install pay per use chargers for free, and offer the building owners a 10% cut of the charging revenue.
dheera 6y ago
> A staggering amount of buildings are built to code A staggering amount of buildings are also NOT built to code. My smoke detector failed and isn't getting replaced for a whole week. My heater makes scraping noises every time it starts and maintainence thinks it's normal. Smack in the middle of Silicon Valley. But this is the best of what I could afford. It's decent. It's clean. Everything else I saw at my budget was worse. One apartment I saw was $2400 for a 1-bedroom and had the toilet paper holder was bolted to the wall right above a red hot heating element recessed in the wall with a grill. Needless to say I didn't rent there. Want an apartment that is built to code? It'll cost you $3000 or more.
- bluGill 6y ago
  The valley is well known for not building enough, thus allowing this to happen. You can find apartments like that in any city, but it will be the bad part of town and rent will be in the 500 range.
- yks 6y ago
  housing in the US is just not that great for the thing right in the center of the national psyche: cookie cutter designs with no attention to the environment, low-quality constructions, apartments with zero soundproofing (no wonder everyone wants a house) and then the laws that force people to keep antiquated structures around for way longer than reasonable.
- pmarreck 6y ago
  Cool story, bro
- fakedang 6y ago
  Why are people so numbskulled to downvote this - A guy sharing his firsthand experience? Let me guess, everyone on HN in SV lives in a fancy multistorey condo overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge? /s
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
slovette 6y ago
I disagree with this. Retro installs maybe, yes. But new construction, which I consult heavily on, most of the developers I work with are motivated to install them. They’re revenue sources and attract the kind of tenants they want occupying their new building. The answer to retro installs (which is always about money anyway) is to not force the hand of property owners, but make the install cost a no brainer with tax rebates and subsidies. Regulation in this regard would just cause negative effects I think, IF it ever passed a public vote (Cali maybe, but not much of the rest of the country).
- topkai22 6y ago
  I agree it's probably not so bad even for retrofits - 70% of housing in the US is SFH or a duplex (https://www.infoplease.com/us/census/housing-statistics https://www.infoplease.com/us/census/housing-statistics). Getting a charging solution for those units seems achievable. I'm also willing to bet that multifamily housing is generally massively over represented in blue cities, which might be able to require/incentives retrofits. That's a huge marketable population to start buying electric vehicles and normalize them. I suspect that by the time there is significant used electric market there will also be enough market and political demand to figure out the multi-family situation.
- sli 6y ago
  My city is building tons of new apartments clearly meant for commuters to the nearby big cities and exactly zero of them have EV chargers despite being the most expensive apartments in town. I'm not holding my breath that new construction will do this all that soon, either.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  I was looking at a few new apartment in london that are just completing construction. The amount of charging points I personally was able to find is big fat zero.
- AtlasBarfed 6y ago
  Subsidies are the way to do this. The government should be highly motivated to spur transition to EVs for carbon emissions, and what is holding back almost everyone except Tesla is charging infrastructure. Cities where concentrated apartments reside have the double whammy of pointless carbon emissions in traffic jams and smog. Identifying lobbying groups with common interest in this would lead me to the mainline auto industry, especially GM and Ford. They need a charging infrastructure build pronto to compete with Tesla and its Supercharger network. This would probably be related, since city drivers are younger and more likely to buy an EV. Such is American Politics that you have to lobby the lobbying groups to get anything done.
newyankee 6y ago
There is significant potential for installing solar on rooftops and small storage to reduce grid loads for EV charging

neltnerb 6y ago

With the rare exception for when the expected marketing value of having those spots or tax subsidies make installing them appear to have a positive value. The exception that definitely proves the rule. Until it's mandatory in new construction it won't even start to become normal. I'm curious how street parking is supposed to work, that photo is hilarious but I imagine that on the streets of Boston where you'll get hit with a bat over trying to save a parking spot (or trying to use a saved parking spot, it's Boston in the winter). I have the feeling you're going to see better adoption in suburbs and lower density urban areas first because the range doesn't need to be so high but it's also not impossible to have a consistent parking space (or garage or driveway) that you can invest in improving. I'd probably have to get a special variance from the city to install an outlet in the sidewalk...

amluto 6y ago

Fortunately, the CalGreen code has some charging requirements: https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-green-code-2016/chapter/5/nonresidential-mandatory-measures#table_5.106.5.3.3 https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-green-code-2016/chapte... I think the requirements should be higher, but this is a start.

resonantjacket5 6y ago

A bit off topic, but your example of parking spots probably isn't the best. There's been some calls to lower the kinda ludicrous parking requirements mandated by local authorities

brewdad 6y ago
If the efforts to reduce parking requirements succeed, you can be sure that more units will be built with no parking lots at all (Profit$). We are seeing this in Portland where 20 unit apartment buildings are getting built with zero parking (or maybe 10 spaces available for additional rent). The end result, for now at least, is 30-40 more cars parked in the surrounding streets.
- ndiscussion 6y ago
  Can confirm, I lived in one of those apartments, now I'm very happy in a suburb. It's nice to be able to haul groceries to your place without walking 4 blocks from the car for each load.
  - username90 6y ago
    Typically in such neighborhoods in Europe the grocery store is no further than 4 blocks away, so you just walk and don't use a car. It works since the store doesn't have parking minimums either so don't take a lot of space, even if it is a fairly large one.
    - ferongr 6y ago
      Carrying 35kg of groceries sucks. Especially when it rains. Personally, I drive 2km to a larger store with underground parking instead of visiting the store two blocks away.
      - oblio 6y ago
        That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.
        6y ago

exhilaration 6y ago

It's going to be very hard to apply that mandate to existing construction. I feel like the best way to move forward is for charging companies like EVgo or Chargepoint (or a new HN company!) to approach building owners, install pay per use chargers for free, and offer the building owners a 10% cut of the charging revenue.

dheera 6y ago

> A staggering amount of buildings are built to code A staggering amount of buildings are also NOT built to code. My smoke detector failed and isn't getting replaced for a whole week. My heater makes scraping noises every time it starts and maintainence thinks it's normal. Smack in the middle of Silicon Valley. But this is the best of what I could afford. It's decent. It's clean. Everything else I saw at my budget was worse. One apartment I saw was $2400 for a 1-bedroom and had the toilet paper holder was bolted to the wall right above a red hot heating element recessed in the wall with a grill. Needless to say I didn't rent there. Want an apartment that is built to code? It'll cost you $3000 or more.

bluGill 6y ago
The valley is well known for not building enough, thus allowing this to happen. You can find apartments like that in any city, but it will be the bad part of town and rent will be in the 500 range.
yks 6y ago
housing in the US is just not that great for the thing right in the center of the national psyche: cookie cutter designs with no attention to the environment, low-quality constructions, apartments with zero soundproofing (no wonder everyone wants a house) and then the laws that force people to keep antiquated structures around for way longer than reasonable.
pmarreck 6y ago
Cool story, bro
fakedang 6y ago
Why are people so numbskulled to downvote this - A guy sharing his firsthand experience? Let me guess, everyone on HN in SV lives in a fancy multistorey condo overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge? /s
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

slovette 6y ago

I disagree with this. Retro installs maybe, yes. But new construction, which I consult heavily on, most of the developers I work with are motivated to install them. They’re revenue sources and attract the kind of tenants they want occupying their new building. The answer to retro installs (which is always about money anyway) is to not force the hand of property owners, but make the install cost a no brainer with tax rebates and subsidies. Regulation in this regard would just cause negative effects I think, IF it ever passed a public vote (Cali maybe, but not much of the rest of the country).

topkai22 6y ago
I agree it's probably not so bad even for retrofits - 70% of housing in the US is SFH or a duplex (https://www.infoplease.com/us/census/housing-statistics https://www.infoplease.com/us/census/housing-statistics). Getting a charging solution for those units seems achievable. I'm also willing to bet that multifamily housing is generally massively over represented in blue cities, which might be able to require/incentives retrofits. That's a huge marketable population to start buying electric vehicles and normalize them. I suspect that by the time there is significant used electric market there will also be enough market and political demand to figure out the multi-family situation.
sli 6y ago
My city is building tons of new apartments clearly meant for commuters to the nearby big cities and exactly zero of them have EV chargers despite being the most expensive apartments in town. I'm not holding my breath that new construction will do this all that soon, either.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
I was looking at a few new apartment in london that are just completing construction. The amount of charging points I personally was able to find is big fat zero.
AtlasBarfed 6y ago
Subsidies are the way to do this. The government should be highly motivated to spur transition to EVs for carbon emissions, and what is holding back almost everyone except Tesla is charging infrastructure. Cities where concentrated apartments reside have the double whammy of pointless carbon emissions in traffic jams and smog. Identifying lobbying groups with common interest in this would lead me to the mainline auto industry, especially GM and Ford. They need a charging infrastructure build pronto to compete with Tesla and its Supercharger network. This would probably be related, since city drivers are younger and more likely to buy an EV. Such is American Politics that you have to lobby the lobbying groups to get anything done.

newyankee 6y ago

There is significant potential for installing solar on rooftops and small storage to reduce grid loads for EV charging