5 ms·

The problem with me for PHEVs is that you have all the mechanical problems of an ICE. The main attraction of EVs is no longer having gearboxes, engines, turbos,

The problem with me for PHEVs is that you have all the mechanical problems of an ICE. The main attraction of EVs is no longer having gearboxes, engines, turbos, cambelts etc

detaro 6y ago
The serial-hybrid kind (drive is electric, additional ICE drives a generator that charges a battery) can avoid at least some of that complexity. I'm curious to see if that's going to be a somewhat common thing, or if it's just too much extra stuff and weight compared to just packing in more batteries instead.
- Forbo 6y ago
  Since Chevy killed the Volt, it looks like they're focusing on just going straight electric. Which I find unfortunate, I was hoping more manufacturers would take the series hybrid approach.
  - thesmok 6y ago
    Honda makes series hybrid now: CR-V, Accord, Jazz. Accoring to reviews, they are more efficient than Toyotas.
nradov 6y ago
Well that's the theory. In practice the Toyota Prius with its highly complex hybrid drivetrain is far more reliable and durable than any Tesla. Proper engineering and build quality counts for a lot.
- namdnay 6y ago
  Yes that's a very good point
- Gregoriy 6y ago
  The other side of the story when it breaks it's really hard to find a specialist ;(
- tyfon 6y ago
  Where do you find this data? I'm quite curious, most of my co-workers (and me) drive Teslas and there has yet been any drive train issues in any of ours. Two of them have gone over 500.000 km. But what I see is pure anecdotal. All I can find is statistics on general repairs not drive train specifically and even here tesla is quite high but not on par with Toyota. Audi seems to be one of the worst actually.
  - aerostable_slug 6y ago
    Anecdotal as well, but I used to be involved with some SAE working groups on EVs and hybrids, and re: the Prius, let's just say just about every engineer I spoke to, regardless of company, was very complimentary. I'm not going to out who said what, and note that was 8..? years ago and everyone has undoubtedly improved since then. That said, it was interesting to see near-universal acceptance of its excellence (of course some joked that theirs were actually fun to drive, which was a fair observation). As an amusing aside, at one working group dinner I had to explain to a couple of let's just say European engineers what "Vegan" meant on the menu. Hilarity ensued.
  - nradov 6y ago
    https://www.truedelta.com/Toyota-Prius-vs-Tesla-Model-S-reliability-comparison,272-1095 https://www.truedelta.com/Toyota-Prius-vs-Tesla-Model-S-reli...
    - tyfon 6y ago
      Do you have one for drive train? I only see general issues there. The old model S they have in this comparison had a lot of baby issues with other stuff, but very few drive train issues.
notJim 6y ago
I feel like EV boosters overstate these problems. I have a 12 year-old Toyota with 200k+ miles, and the only parts that have ever worn out have been suspension and brake parts (wheel bearing and brake rotors/pads), which of course an EV will have as well. It's never had problems with the engine or transmission. There are oil changes, and it'll be nice to skip that once I have an EV, but it's also like a 20 minute thing twice a year or so.

The problem with me for PHEVs is that you have all the mechanical problems of an ICE. The main attraction of EVs is no longer having gearboxes, engines, turbos, cambelts etc

detaro 6y ago

The serial-hybrid kind (drive is electric, additional ICE drives a generator that charges a battery) can avoid at least some of that complexity. I'm curious to see if that's going to be a somewhat common thing, or if it's just too much extra stuff and weight compared to just packing in more batteries instead.

Forbo 6y ago
Since Chevy killed the Volt, it looks like they're focusing on just going straight electric. Which I find unfortunate, I was hoping more manufacturers would take the series hybrid approach.
- thesmok 6y ago
  Honda makes series hybrid now: CR-V, Accord, Jazz. Accoring to reviews, they are more efficient than Toyotas.

nradov 6y ago

Well that's the theory. In practice the Toyota Prius with its highly complex hybrid drivetrain is far more reliable and durable than any Tesla. Proper engineering and build quality counts for a lot.

namdnay 6y ago
Yes that's a very good point
Gregoriy 6y ago
The other side of the story when it breaks it's really hard to find a specialist ;(
tyfon 6y ago
Where do you find this data? I'm quite curious, most of my co-workers (and me) drive Teslas and there has yet been any drive train issues in any of ours. Two of them have gone over 500.000 km. But what I see is pure anecdotal. All I can find is statistics on general repairs not drive train specifically and even here tesla is quite high but not on par with Toyota. Audi seems to be one of the worst actually.
- aerostable_slug 6y ago
  Anecdotal as well, but I used to be involved with some SAE working groups on EVs and hybrids, and re: the Prius, let's just say just about every engineer I spoke to, regardless of company, was very complimentary. I'm not going to out who said what, and note that was 8..? years ago and everyone has undoubtedly improved since then. That said, it was interesting to see near-universal acceptance of its excellence (of course some joked that theirs were actually fun to drive, which was a fair observation). As an amusing aside, at one working group dinner I had to explain to a couple of let's just say European engineers what "Vegan" meant on the menu. Hilarity ensued.
- nradov 6y ago
  https://www.truedelta.com/Toyota-Prius-vs-Tesla-Model-S-reliability-comparison,272-1095 https://www.truedelta.com/Toyota-Prius-vs-Tesla-Model-S-reli...
  - tyfon 6y ago
    Do you have one for drive train? I only see general issues there. The old model S they have in this comparison had a lot of baby issues with other stuff, but very few drive train issues.

notJim 6y ago

I feel like EV boosters overstate these problems. I have a 12 year-old Toyota with 200k+ miles, and the only parts that have ever worn out have been suspension and brake parts (wheel bearing and brake rotors/pads), which of course an EV will have as well. It's never had problems with the engine or transmission. There are oil changes, and it'll be nice to skip that once I have an EV, but it's also like a 20 minute thing twice a year or so.