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I don't know why you assert this. It is the concern for literally every person I know who would otherwise have bought an EV, including myself. People like the

I don't know why you assert this. It is the concern for literally every person I know who would otherwise have bought an EV, including myself. People like the freedom to take longer road trips without meticulous planning, and without sticking to certain interstate routes which skip the interesting parts of the country.

mywittyname 6y ago
I never said it wasn't a concern, I said it wasn't the biggest concern. If all the gas stations around your house disappeared, would your first concern be how you are going to get to Indianapolis? No. It's going to be how are you going to get work/school/etc everyday (assuming you don't work in Indianapolis). EVs have an issue where most drivers have to own their own gas-station equivalent. And people without the space to put a personal "gas station" can't really own one. At that point, they don't give a damn whether they can drive to Indianapolis. Solving the day-to-day charging problem for people without the space for personal charges will, as a side-effect, also solve the issue for driving long distances. Because the issue with going long distances in an EV comes down to availability of charging.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Both things are concerns, at least when you get to longer trips on secondary roads in rural areas.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    But again, concerns over range are really just a type of concern over public charging capacity. If the people who drive those roads regularly can charge on public chargers, then people driving through on long trips also have the ability to charge there. Thus range isn't a concern.
    - argiopetech 6y ago
      In the early days of ICE vehicles, range would have been a concern. After all, horses can eat almost anywhere and there was plenty of infrastructure (hay barns) available. The solution to range for an ICE is "carry more fuel". I can load my truck bed with 500 gallons of fuel and tow 1000 more without taking a significant mileage penalty and drive 2/3 of the way around the world. An exaggerated scenario, to be sure, but the concept holds on smaller scales and is a valuable ability for many. What does an electric vehicle offer for someone in the USA's mid-west, Canada's far north, or the Australian outback where a vehicle may need to travel for days off road without seeing civilization, possibly while maintaining heat for survival or running equipment via e.g. a PTO? Edit to add a reply to your earlier comment: The majority of consumer uses of ICEs at the moment is commuting, agreed. Governments aren't talking about banning the majority of ICE sales. What fills the hole?
    - dm319 6y ago
      I think I'm with you on this. Range is largely a solved problem now. Once a car can go 120 miles, that's 2 hours of driving, at which point you need a break anyway. My car is already nearly a 1000kg too heavy because of the battery, and I use only half of it daily for a long commute. Most people would only use a fraction for their commute. Instead of pushing for more miles we now need surplus chargers everywhere. Homes, work, car parks and stations.
- beerandt 6y ago
  Except these are basically the same overlapping issues, and you're describing the more difficult way to solve it. If vehicles have twice the range, you only need about half the charging infrastructure. If I don't have a personal charger at home, 1-2 charges a week while I'm shopping is doable. But that's not something most people will be willing to do daily, away from home, unless it's super convenient. >Solving the day-to-day charging problem .... comes down to availability of charging. This might work in idealized theory, but not in practice. From a market-systems perspective, it'll be the opposite, because range is the more flexible, independent variable. More required charges means more constraints, which requires a much more complex (and therefore inefficient) system to solve. And this is even more applicable when factoring in grid supply/demand/capacity. Separately: the market isn't always rational. If people say they want the range to drive to Indianapolis, believe them, no matter how irrational that demand is to you. Especially if meeting that requirement (range) also satisfies their others (daily charging).
bartvk 6y ago
I get why you like the freedom to take longer road trips without meticulous planning, however when I look at how I use my EV (Renault Zoe), it's not that bad. Basically for normal daily usage, you don't really care because the range (180-240 km) is big enough to not worry. We take longer trips maybe 3-4 times per year. And then you do need to plan. In that case, not a big deal to me.

mywittyname 6y ago

I never said it wasn't a concern, I said it wasn't the biggest concern. If all the gas stations around your house disappeared, would your first concern be how you are going to get to Indianapolis? No. It's going to be how are you going to get work/school/etc everyday (assuming you don't work in Indianapolis). EVs have an issue where most drivers have to own their own gas-station equivalent. And people without the space to put a personal "gas station" can't really own one. At that point, they don't give a damn whether they can drive to Indianapolis. Solving the day-to-day charging problem for people without the space for personal charges will, as a side-effect, also solve the issue for driving long distances. Because the issue with going long distances in an EV comes down to availability of charging.

ghaff 6y ago
Both things are concerns, at least when you get to longer trips on secondary roads in rural areas.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  But again, concerns over range are really just a type of concern over public charging capacity. If the people who drive those roads regularly can charge on public chargers, then people driving through on long trips also have the ability to charge there. Thus range isn't a concern.
  - argiopetech 6y ago
    In the early days of ICE vehicles, range would have been a concern. After all, horses can eat almost anywhere and there was plenty of infrastructure (hay barns) available. The solution to range for an ICE is "carry more fuel". I can load my truck bed with 500 gallons of fuel and tow 1000 more without taking a significant mileage penalty and drive 2/3 of the way around the world. An exaggerated scenario, to be sure, but the concept holds on smaller scales and is a valuable ability for many. What does an electric vehicle offer for someone in the USA's mid-west, Canada's far north, or the Australian outback where a vehicle may need to travel for days off road without seeing civilization, possibly while maintaining heat for survival or running equipment via e.g. a PTO? Edit to add a reply to your earlier comment: The majority of consumer uses of ICEs at the moment is commuting, agreed. Governments aren't talking about banning the majority of ICE sales. What fills the hole?
  - dm319 6y ago
    I think I'm with you on this. Range is largely a solved problem now. Once a car can go 120 miles, that's 2 hours of driving, at which point you need a break anyway. My car is already nearly a 1000kg too heavy because of the battery, and I use only half of it daily for a long commute. Most people would only use a fraction for their commute. Instead of pushing for more miles we now need surplus chargers everywhere. Homes, work, car parks and stations.
beerandt 6y ago
Except these are basically the same overlapping issues, and you're describing the more difficult way to solve it. If vehicles have twice the range, you only need about half the charging infrastructure. If I don't have a personal charger at home, 1-2 charges a week while I'm shopping is doable. But that's not something most people will be willing to do daily, away from home, unless it's super convenient. >Solving the day-to-day charging problem .... comes down to availability of charging. This might work in idealized theory, but not in practice. From a market-systems perspective, it'll be the opposite, because range is the more flexible, independent variable. More required charges means more constraints, which requires a much more complex (and therefore inefficient) system to solve. And this is even more applicable when factoring in grid supply/demand/capacity. Separately: the market isn't always rational. If people say they want the range to drive to Indianapolis, believe them, no matter how irrational that demand is to you. Especially if meeting that requirement (range) also satisfies their others (daily charging).

bartvk 6y ago

I get why you like the freedom to take longer road trips without meticulous planning, however when I look at how I use my EV (Renault Zoe), it's not that bad. Basically for normal daily usage, you don't really care because the range (180-240 km) is big enough to not worry. We take longer trips maybe 3-4 times per year. And then you do need to plan. In that case, not a big deal to me.