19 ms·

Roger Ebert: The dying of the light

297 points by kyleslattery 15y ago

larrik 15y ago
Sony's name is really being dragged through the mud lately. Not that they don't deserve it, of course. It's just interesting to see how many different areas of business a company can be attacked in at once.
- carmen 15y ago
  SONY is fantastic. a Vaio X and Vim, Chromium and Xmonad is a perfect dev box. their shortwave recievers are a cut above the competition in selectivity and build quality. im still using some video monitor of theirs from the late 70s to catch up on youtubes.
  - regularfry 15y ago
    Unfortunately their imperfections outweigh their perfections a hundred to one. On balance it's not worth doing business with them.
  - upthedale 15y ago
    a Vaio X and Vim, Chromium and Xmonad is a perfect dev box. I have never used a Vaio, but I would question how much one contributes to being a perfect dev box. You can install Vim, Chromium and Xmonad on any other machine. im still using some video monitor of theirs from the late 70s to catch up on youtubes. Again, I haven't used Sony stuff from the 70s, it may well be fantastic. However, that was over 3 decades ago, and irrelevant when evaluating their behaviour in recent times. I certainly won't be buying anything from Sony anytime soon - I simply don't trust the brand.
- vilhelm_s 15y ago
  And note that there is a pattern to it. Just like in the GeoHotz case it's their aggressive DRM which gets them in trouble: "So why aren't theater personnel simply removing the 3-D lenses? The answer is that it takes time, it costs money, and it requires technical know-how above the level of the average multiplex employee. [...] issues with the Sonys are more than mechanical. Opening the projector alone involves security clearances and Internet passwords, 'and if you don't do it right, the machine will shut down on you.'".
  - adrianN 15y ago
    I wonder if the reason for these draconian measures is preventing piracy at the projector. Why else would you prohibit people from opening their projectors if that is necessary to change the lens?
    - phuff 15y ago
      One article I read about this mentioned that it takes several passwords and a significant time investment just to _open the camera_ to change the 3-d lenses. So yeah. I'd say it's draconian piracy prevention at work :)
      - crux_ 15y ago
        > One article I read about this mentioned that it takes several passwords and a significant time investment just to _open the camera_ I can't tell. Are you being sarcastic?
        marshray 15y ago
        It's in the linked article.
        crux_ 15y ago
        And quoted in the ancestor comment, too. My "are you being sarcastic" is because phuff's wording made it sound as if she/he thought they were introducing new information ... ;)
        phuff 15y ago
        Hah. I had read an article previously maybe a day or two earlier, maybe even from HN, and was just looking at the comments on this one since I already knew the gist of the story :) That's what I get for silly and not frequenting the comments enough I guess. :)
- r00fus 15y ago
  It seems to me more like Sony is dragging it's own name through the mud with inferior products, half-assed security and disregard for their customers. I'd love to be one of their competitors right now.
- mashmac2 15y ago
  A defense of Sony's Professional lines - it really seems like a different company. We recently upgraded to new Sony PMW-350's (video cameras), and couldn't be happier. For the price, they out-do anything else in the market. (And no DRM either :)
deleted 15y ago
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latch 15y ago
I gave up on theaters a long time ago. I think what tipped me over were the parents of a crying infant during LOTR. Who brings an infant to a movie? Let alone a very long and very loud movie? Then there's the sticky floor, the hit of miss seating, idiots, the price, the sound that's too loud, and now, apparently, the picture quality that sucks. Watch movies at home. You can control how great or how average the experience is, largely by how much you want to spend. Your average flat screen is pretty damn good these days. You gotta be mindful of where you put it (beware the glare!). I think the only thing people get wrong with home-theater is sound. Sound is worth as much as video.
kylelibra 15y ago
If the movie industry wants people to stop pirating movies, they need to stop giving them excuses like this to do so.
- swah 15y ago
  OTOH this makes TS videos even worse.
  - kylelibra 15y ago
    Maybe that's the secret strategy.
grovulent 15y ago
Another quality article by the Ebert.. quoth the Ebert: "I began by asking if you notice, really notice, what a movie looks like. I have a feeling many people don't. They buy their ticket, they get their popcorn and they obediently watch what is shown to them. But at some level there is a difference. They feel it in their guts. The film should have a brightness, a crispness and sparkle that makes an impact. It should look like a movie! -- not a mediocre big-screen television." Note how the Ebert cites his 'gut' evidence right at the bottom of the article. This is not by accident - but a master stroke. For why would you admit that you have no pragmatic basis for your outrage at the beginning of the article? This would simply alienate you from those readers who might, oh, you know... be after some kind of empirical data. I know I probably deserve to be down voted - in order to cure me of my irk. (After all - why should I care if people like the Ebert?) But it's IRKSOME this guy is so well read.
- jnovek 15y ago
  "Gut feeling" is not intended to be a source of evidence, here -- he's trying to describe a sensation that the audience feels. The sensation that, "this isn't as good as it used to be, but I don't know why." He's proposing that the cause (or at least, one possible cause) of that "gut feeling" is that movies are poorly lit.
- nonrecursive 15y ago
  I obliged you with a downvote. Almost the entire article is devoted to explaining that there is an empirical (the word I think you intended when you used "pragmatic"? not sure) degradation in film projection and why that is. He then relates that to the comments he's had on his blog and in email about how movies look better on blu-ray than at the theater, as well as other comments from professional movie critics. This doesn't seem unreasonable at all. I'd like to hear more about your contentions with the article, because I don't really see how what you wrote corresponds to what Ebert wrote.
  - grovulent 15y ago
    How does one get downvote powers anyway? So yes - clarification is needed. I'm willing to take on faith that there is measurable degradation of film quality. Let us grant that there is plenty of empirical evidence for this claim. There is no empirical evidence presented besides blog comments that this measurably effects the greater portion of hedonic goodness in theatre goers. Worse - I see no presentation of empirical evidence whatsoever for Ebert's larger thesis that the degradation is sufficient enough to have a measurable effect on market share (as against dvds etc). Bearing in mind they were losing market share before 3d. Hence there is no pragmatic reason to be upset beyond perhaps you're own heightened sensitivities - which Ebert himself may possess - I have no idea. In any case - it's an extremely poorly argued article. But it is truly weird - People just love the Ebert.
ck2 15y ago
Somewhat OT, did they do that thing yet where they were going to synthesize his voice from past reviews? I'm very curious to hear that. Haven't been to the movies in years but last few times I was there what really drove me crazy was the messed up sound - way too loud and the quality sucked. If the picture is also poor now, well I guess I am staying home and waiting for the bluray release. Everything is out on disc for rental in less than six months now, not a big wait.
- naner 15y ago
  did they do that thing yet where they were going to synthesize his voice from past reviews? Sure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR9OS74Sa8s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR9OS74Sa8s They had it working last year IIRC.
  - ck2 15y ago
    Actually in that video it's not working yet. He gives a preview of it at 5:40 but it's a little rough.
bambax 15y ago
> At my recent Ebertfest, one seasoned director called the projection in the 90-year old Virginia Theater in Urbana-Champaign "the best I've ever seen." That's because we use two of the best projectionists in the nation, James Bond, who consults on high-level projection facilities... James Bond? Okay, not every theater can afford to have James Bond in the projection booth... ;-) - - - A serious and interesting information is that for Pirates 4, people apparently chose to see the film in 2D (60% of first week gross) rather than 3D: "Not only is this a clear rejection of 3D on a major movie, but given how distribution is currently designed, it makes you wonder whether Disney cost themselves a lot of gross by putting their film on too high a percentage of 3D screens." (quoted from Gitesh Pandya of BoxOfficeGuru.com)
- forkandwait 15y ago
  Re 3D: The only reason we pay the extra money for 3D is that the 2D is not available at the time we want. I think 3D is a clear example of technology for its own sake (ooh! cool!), but which doesn't actually help the story be experienced (your involvement with the characters is not enhanced at all, etc).
  - iwwr 15y ago
    The picture should be just as bright for a 3d projection. Unfortunately, that means a more expensive light source (or two separate ones). The decision to simply use an old lamp at half intensity may have made immediate cost-cutting sense, but it's damaging the 3D brand. Case in point, Tron 2 3D was dim to the point that I removed the polarizers for the 2d-only scenes. The difference is quite visible.
  - onedognight 15y ago
    > I think 3D is a clear example of technology for its own sake They said the same thing about color.
  - ams6110 15y ago
    There was a piece posted here some months ago that made the claim that 3D movies would never work, because the human eye (or brain) has to work harder than normal to process the false perception of near and far objects which the eye has to focus on at one fixed distance (the screen surface).
krschultz 15y ago
As someone who finds just as much interest in sound quality as the lyrics, as critical of the picture as the storyline, I whole-heartedly agree. Most movie theaters are simply horrible. The sound is atrocious (overly loud and muddy is the most common problem) and the pictures have become dimmer and dimmer. Having to travel further to find a good screen just makes movie theaters that much worse. Give me a Blu-ray and my home setup for quality over most movie theaters. I used to get most movies off of Netflix and then see action movies in the theaters. I thought that I was better off seeing the spectacle on a large screen. But the technical inferiority of the typical movie theater has led me to flip my viewing habits. Now I really only see comedies in the theaters and watch everything else at home. You still can't replicate a crowded movie theater at a comedy, it makes it far funnier to laugh with other people.
- colomon 15y ago
  Oddly enough, your first analogy there nicely explains why I find this issue a big yawn. I cannot in a million years imagine having as much interest in sound quality as in lyrics. That's not to say I don't like good sound quality. But an awful lot of my listening is to 30-90 year old recordings, many recorded in less than ideal conditions. I listen because the music is brilliant. I can't imagine preferring to listen mediocre musicians because their recording is perfectly engineered and reproduced. My guess is most of us over 30 have spent most of our lives watching movies in less-than-ideal conditions. Today I don't feel any particular urge to upgrade from DVD. But I'd dearly love to upgrade the writing on most new movies I see...
  - afterburner 15y ago
    I used to feel like you did about audio quality (and I don't even care about lyrics, I really am listening for the music itself), but once you get a nice set of speakers and balance them properly (preferably using one of the auto-balancing receivers that use a microphone and test signals), it really does make you appreciate it more. I find myself wanting to listen to music more when I hear on my nice speakers at home as opposed to my crappy-but-comfortable earphones at work. However, I am listening mostly to music from the last 5-10 years, so there is that.
chrismealy 15y ago
"It is as if the Industry is courting self-destruction." And how.
roadnottaken 15y ago
He said you can tell if a movie is digitally projected because it has a 'D' after it in the listing. Is that only in newspapers? I don't see that info on MovieFone, does anyone know where it can be found?
- dangrossman 15y ago
  I usually look up showtimes on Fandango and they clearly label any digital showings as "DP (Digital Projection) Showtimes". I usually see those for Regal theater listings, it could also be a matter of other chains not reporting the information.
ctdonath 15y ago
New iteration of an old problem. Not sure if I was the "Kodak spokesman" he referred to. --- Movie Answer Man Roger Ebert / February 7, 1999 Q. In your recent review of "Virus", you commented: "It didn't help that the print I saw was so underlit that often I could see hardly anything on the screen. Was that because the movie was filmed that way, or because the projector bulb was dimmed to extend its life span?" A dirty secret is that movies are under-lit in most theaters. Films are produced with the intent that they be projected at the brightness of 16 foot-lamberts. Field research by Kodak found that they are often shown at 8-10 foot-lamberts, well under the SMPTE standard for brightness. To get theaters up to this and other standards, Kodak is introducing the Screencheck Experience program. The under-lighting of screens may be acceptable for a few movies--lest you see the entirety of their badness--but in general it unnecessarily degrades the theater experience. (Carl Donath, Rochester NY) A. I've seen thousands of movies and I believe the Screencheck Experience program would only confirm that "Virus" was severely deprived of foot-lamberts when I saw it in a Chicago theater not a million miles from the Water Tower. Martin Scorsese, who travels with a light meter, once told me movies are projected at the correct brilliance in New York and Los Angeles, because that's where the filmmakers live, and they squawk. In a lot of other places, he said, the theaters turn down the juice to save on the replacement costs of expensive bulbs.
- e40 15y ago
  The common thread is that the corporations in the supply chain between you and the creators of the content really don't care much about the experience you have in the theater. They care about maximizing profit. We need to link, in their minds, their bad decision making and reduced profits. That is the only way any changes will be made. Of course, for my part, the movie going experience is horrible for additional reasons: commercials, talking patrons, and crying babies. I've seen one movie in the last 6 months and there was a crying baby and and a talking child in the theater. Had I not traveled 40 minutes to see the movie, I'd have asked for my money back immediately.
  - marshray 15y ago
    You'd think with the panic the film industry is in they'd be falling over themselves trying to please the moviegoer. Instead we see them trying to treat you as a captive audience and squeeze more revenue out of your eyeballs. They forget who actually holds the money in every transaction: the customer, and few transactions are as thoroughly optional as movie tickets. I'm sure the talking and disrespect in the movie theater is a symptom of the problem. People no longer respect the theater because it's stopped respecting them, and in the process lost its own self-respect.
SoftwareMaven 15y ago
Given the fact I have no depth perception and all 3D does is reduce the sharpness of the image and force me to wear stupid glasses, the day 3D wins is the day after I leave the theaters for good.
sluckxz 15y ago
I have never seen a 3d movie yet. I went to my best local theater, that was built within the last ten years (There actually are only two local movie theaters.) to see How to Train Your Dragon in 3d. The opening credits/intro pieces looked incredible. I was so excited! When the movie started I realized there were only two tiny speakers at the front of the theater by the screen outputting audio. I started complaining to the point that i was getting shushed by some patrons. Mostly asking around who else noticed the audio was broken. After a few minutes I went to speak with the manager. Basically I was told I was the first person to complain and that was the way it was supposed to be. I couldn't fathom that to be correct so I continued to question the manager. Eventually she somewhat admitted that the audio, for some technical reason she couldn't explain was not properly able to be played on their 3d projection/audio system. So I left. I got the ticket price refunded but not the cost of my concessions. I couldn't help but feel mass amounts of consumers were being ripped off. I felt the team that produced that fine film would have been heartbroken to have seen the movie there. I know i was not willing to watch a movie, my first 3d movie! with audio the quality of a poorly pirated movie. I considered finding someone to complain too. I imagined the theater was breaking rules by showing the film with such a key component horribly crippled. But I did not. I have not been back to see a 3d movie. I would like to see one someday. I will go again, perhaps to a theater in another town, someday. I hope they get their "stuff" together. Articles like this do not inspire confidence.
kmfrk 15y ago
The entrepreneur in me wants to point out that any cinema owner worth his or her salt would get great PR from making it clear that they make sure that their projection (and sound) is as intended by the director, now that all the discussion is blowing up. At least owners who live in a place with nearby competing cinemas.
deleted 15y ago
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gatlin 15y ago
I'm fortunate enough to live in Austin, TX and we have several Alamo Drafthouse locations here (http://originalalamo.com http://originalalamo.com). They treat movies like events: most locations during peak times show current fare, but they also have "Weird Wednesdays" and "Terror Tuesdays" with old movies, and similar specialty nights; they do MST3K-style riffing on old classics every once in a while; they serve food and beer; and they have a very draconian policy on talking during movies: do it twice and you're out. They also publish a program much like the local stage theaters each "season." They're very professional and enjoyable, and are the only theaters I visit these days. Otherwise, hell, I'll put up with my 480p projector and a hacked Wii over sticky ringtone-festivals across town at $7 a pop. Oh, and the sound and picture quality are un-paralleled, which was my point: theaters which care care about all aspects of the experience, not just technical excellence.
- BrandonM 15y ago
  > ...sticky ringtone-festivals across town at $7 a pop. I only wish movies were $7. The local AMC is currently $8.50 ($11.50 for 3D), and that's in Columbus which is generally cheaper than most big cities.
dhyasama 15y ago
Does anyone now of a good resource for theater reviews? Some quick Googling didn't pull anything up for me. It would be interesting to see a listing of which theaters use which projectors as well as sound system quality.
brxta 15y ago
OT: None of my coworkers recognized the "dying of the light" reference. [Insert rant about how nobody reads anymore.] It's Dylan Thomas: Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- clarebear 15y ago
  When I read the title, I thought Ebert was dying because of this reference.
- bcaulf 15y ago
  Wow, that is sad. My knowledge of literature and poetry is spotty at best but I certainly picked up on the reference without a moment's thought. The ability to make literary references in a few words is a basic aspect of literacy. I suppose their brains are probably crowded with internet memes and celebrity facts and have no space for this sort of more beautiful trivia. Something I love about geeks is that their big brains tend to retain more references like this, so when they talk and listen they can use the whole language, including classic literature.
afterburner 15y ago
So, this is another case of Sony's locking stuff down impacting its practical quality/adoption? As a counter to one of the points in the article, I don't think people splitting 40/60 on 3D/2D is a "clear rejection" of 3D. 3D still gives a lot of people headaches or other discomforts, and it does cost more and look worse from bad angles (and you'll get the bad angles because there's less 3D theatres and they're packed). Maybe compared to a 3D event movie like Avatar, but that's not a fair comparison. EDIT: Also, I finally some ammunition to use against people who insist that I should turn the brightness/contrast on my TV down to be "theatre" correct. It's supposed to look brightier, even in the theatre! :)
ChuckMcM 15y ago
It is an interesting variation on what I think of as 'crapitalism.' The increase in profitability at the expense of quality. As Ebert points out, crapitalism works because consumers let it work. If there are enough people willing to pay to have the lower quality product, then the motivation to supply the higher quality product is removed. What is missing is a good feedback mechanism for 'fixing' the problem. Let's accept that Ebert is correct in that the cost of the projectionist and their training is the dominant factor in the quality of the projection. Now take what it would cost to hire a projectionist that did quality projections, and raise ticket prices to cover that cost. As the theatre which charges a higher ticket price than any other theatre in the area, you will find you get fewer patrons, that will reduce the number of tickets sold so you will need an even higher price to cover the lower volume. But the higher price will reduce the size of your market. Once you cross the price where the per-person ticket cost exceeds the expected BluRay release cost, your attendance will drop to nearly zero. It is mentioned in the article that people already feel that the 'home' experience with bluray is better than their theatre experience (for some number fraction of people). The message here is that movie theatres are essentially already dead, but like some species of shark they haven't realized it yet. It's only a question of 'when' they will cease to exist. Interestingly this will be blamed on "piracy." But the actual issue will be that the industry has moved into a place where the cost of presenting the information (the 'movie') is exceeding the marginal value of that information to the consumer. That has occurred because not only do people have more choices on how to consume the information, the relative costs of those choices are shifting. A 55" 1080p LCD television is now under $1000. That is a 'durable good' (3 - 5yr lifetime) so represents less than $30/month at 3 yrs or $20/month at 5 yrs of cash flow. It costs $20 for two people to go to the movies, it costs < $10 to rent a movie/stream it. So the value equation on 'cost to consume' is increasingly leaning toward the living room and the marginal value of seeing something in the theatre has to compete with that. I was thinking that digital projection would actually help theatres by reducing their labor costs but having seen a digital projection setup and the complexity and cost that are layered into the system to prevent copies from being made, the cost equation made things actually worse (you need more skill projectionists).
- jodrellblank 15y ago
  Apple does all right with higher costs. "HN advice is often raise your prices". "ChuckMcM Theaters. We're more expensive because that's what it costs to give you a better experience." "ChuckMcM Theaters. Our projectionists make a film look a million dollars, and it will only cost you $40. One showing per night." Etc.
jodrellblank 15y ago
Short-sighted, technically illiterate penny-pinchers are wounding a great art form. And a lot more than that.
erso 15y ago
Does anyone know of a resource that lists theaters based on projection and sound quality? I'd like to find out which theaters in Manhattan are worth going to.
io 15y ago
I'm sitting about 200 yards from the 90-year-old Virginia theater in Champaign. I need to get over there more often, I guess. :)

297 points by kyleslattery 15y ago

Sony's name is really being dragged through the mud lately. Not that they don't deserve it, of course. It's just interesting to see how many different areas of business a company can be attacked in at once.

carmen 15y ago
SONY is fantastic. a Vaio X and Vim, Chromium and Xmonad is a perfect dev box. their shortwave recievers are a cut above the competition in selectivity and build quality. im still using some video monitor of theirs from the late 70s to catch up on youtubes.
- regularfry 15y ago
  Unfortunately their imperfections outweigh their perfections a hundred to one. On balance it's not worth doing business with them.
- upthedale 15y ago
  a Vaio X and Vim, Chromium and Xmonad is a perfect dev box. I have never used a Vaio, but I would question how much one contributes to being a perfect dev box. You can install Vim, Chromium and Xmonad on any other machine. im still using some video monitor of theirs from the late 70s to catch up on youtubes. Again, I haven't used Sony stuff from the 70s, it may well be fantastic. However, that was over 3 decades ago, and irrelevant when evaluating their behaviour in recent times. I certainly won't be buying anything from Sony anytime soon - I simply don't trust the brand.
vilhelm_s 15y ago
And note that there is a pattern to it. Just like in the GeoHotz case it's their aggressive DRM which gets them in trouble: "So why aren't theater personnel simply removing the 3-D lenses? The answer is that it takes time, it costs money, and it requires technical know-how above the level of the average multiplex employee. [...] issues with the Sonys are more than mechanical. Opening the projector alone involves security clearances and Internet passwords, 'and if you don't do it right, the machine will shut down on you.'".
- adrianN 15y ago
  I wonder if the reason for these draconian measures is preventing piracy at the projector. Why else would you prohibit people from opening their projectors if that is necessary to change the lens?
  - phuff 15y ago
    One article I read about this mentioned that it takes several passwords and a significant time investment just to _open the camera_ to change the 3-d lenses. So yeah. I'd say it's draconian piracy prevention at work :)
    - crux_ 15y ago
      > One article I read about this mentioned that it takes several passwords and a significant time investment just to _open the camera_ I can't tell. Are you being sarcastic?
      - marshray 15y ago
        It's in the linked article.
        crux_ 15y ago
        And quoted in the ancestor comment, too. My "are you being sarcastic" is because phuff's wording made it sound as if she/he thought they were introducing new information ... ;)
      - phuff 15y ago
        Hah. I had read an article previously maybe a day or two earlier, maybe even from HN, and was just looking at the comments on this one since I already knew the gist of the story :) That's what I get for silly and not frequenting the comments enough I guess. :)
r00fus 15y ago
It seems to me more like Sony is dragging it's own name through the mud with inferior products, half-assed security and disregard for their customers. I'd love to be one of their competitors right now.
mashmac2 15y ago
A defense of Sony's Professional lines - it really seems like a different company. We recently upgraded to new Sony PMW-350's (video cameras), and couldn't be happier. For the price, they out-do anything else in the market. (And no DRM either :)

deleted 15y ago

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latch 15y ago

I gave up on theaters a long time ago. I think what tipped me over were the parents of a crying infant during LOTR. Who brings an infant to a movie? Let alone a very long and very loud movie? Then there's the sticky floor, the hit of miss seating, idiots, the price, the sound that's too loud, and now, apparently, the picture quality that sucks. Watch movies at home. You can control how great or how average the experience is, largely by how much you want to spend. Your average flat screen is pretty damn good these days. You gotta be mindful of where you put it (beware the glare!). I think the only thing people get wrong with home-theater is sound. Sound is worth as much as video.

kylelibra 15y ago

If the movie industry wants people to stop pirating movies, they need to stop giving them excuses like this to do so.

swah 15y ago
OTOH this makes TS videos even worse.
- kylelibra 15y ago
  Maybe that's the secret strategy.

grovulent 15y ago

Another quality article by the Ebert.. quoth the Ebert: "I began by asking if you notice, really notice, what a movie looks like. I have a feeling many people don't. They buy their ticket, they get their popcorn and they obediently watch what is shown to them. But at some level there is a difference. They feel it in their guts. The film should have a brightness, a crispness and sparkle that makes an impact. It should look like a movie! -- not a mediocre big-screen television." Note how the Ebert cites his 'gut' evidence right at the bottom of the article. This is not by accident - but a master stroke. For why would you admit that you have no pragmatic basis for your outrage at the beginning of the article? This would simply alienate you from those readers who might, oh, you know... be after some kind of empirical data. I know I probably deserve to be down voted - in order to cure me of my irk. (After all - why should I care if people like the Ebert?) But it's IRKSOME this guy is so well read.

jnovek 15y ago
"Gut feeling" is not intended to be a source of evidence, here -- he's trying to describe a sensation that the audience feels. The sensation that, "this isn't as good as it used to be, but I don't know why." He's proposing that the cause (or at least, one possible cause) of that "gut feeling" is that movies are poorly lit.
nonrecursive 15y ago
I obliged you with a downvote. Almost the entire article is devoted to explaining that there is an empirical (the word I think you intended when you used "pragmatic"? not sure) degradation in film projection and why that is. He then relates that to the comments he's had on his blog and in email about how movies look better on blu-ray than at the theater, as well as other comments from professional movie critics. This doesn't seem unreasonable at all. I'd like to hear more about your contentions with the article, because I don't really see how what you wrote corresponds to what Ebert wrote.
- grovulent 15y ago
  How does one get downvote powers anyway? So yes - clarification is needed. I'm willing to take on faith that there is measurable degradation of film quality. Let us grant that there is plenty of empirical evidence for this claim. There is no empirical evidence presented besides blog comments that this measurably effects the greater portion of hedonic goodness in theatre goers. Worse - I see no presentation of empirical evidence whatsoever for Ebert's larger thesis that the degradation is sufficient enough to have a measurable effect on market share (as against dvds etc). Bearing in mind they were losing market share before 3d. Hence there is no pragmatic reason to be upset beyond perhaps you're own heightened sensitivities - which Ebert himself may possess - I have no idea. In any case - it's an extremely poorly argued article. But it is truly weird - People just love the Ebert.

ck2 15y ago

Somewhat OT, did they do that thing yet where they were going to synthesize his voice from past reviews? I'm very curious to hear that. Haven't been to the movies in years but last few times I was there what really drove me crazy was the messed up sound - way too loud and the quality sucked. If the picture is also poor now, well I guess I am staying home and waiting for the bluray release. Everything is out on disc for rental in less than six months now, not a big wait.

naner 15y ago
did they do that thing yet where they were going to synthesize his voice from past reviews? Sure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR9OS74Sa8s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR9OS74Sa8s They had it working last year IIRC.
- ck2 15y ago
  Actually in that video it's not working yet. He gives a preview of it at 5:40 but it's a little rough.

bambax 15y ago

> At my recent Ebertfest, one seasoned director called the projection in the 90-year old Virginia Theater in Urbana-Champaign "the best I've ever seen." That's because we use two of the best projectionists in the nation, James Bond, who consults on high-level projection facilities... James Bond? Okay, not every theater can afford to have James Bond in the projection booth... ;-) - - - A serious and interesting information is that for Pirates 4, people apparently chose to see the film in 2D (60% of first week gross) rather than 3D: "Not only is this a clear rejection of 3D on a major movie, but given how distribution is currently designed, it makes you wonder whether Disney cost themselves a lot of gross by putting their film on too high a percentage of 3D screens." (quoted from Gitesh Pandya of BoxOfficeGuru.com)

forkandwait 15y ago
Re 3D: The only reason we pay the extra money for 3D is that the 2D is not available at the time we want. I think 3D is a clear example of technology for its own sake (ooh! cool!), but which doesn't actually help the story be experienced (your involvement with the characters is not enhanced at all, etc).
- iwwr 15y ago
  The picture should be just as bright for a 3d projection. Unfortunately, that means a more expensive light source (or two separate ones). The decision to simply use an old lamp at half intensity may have made immediate cost-cutting sense, but it's damaging the 3D brand. Case in point, Tron 2 3D was dim to the point that I removed the polarizers for the 2d-only scenes. The difference is quite visible.
- onedognight 15y ago
  > I think 3D is a clear example of technology for its own sake They said the same thing about color.
- ams6110 15y ago
  There was a piece posted here some months ago that made the claim that 3D movies would never work, because the human eye (or brain) has to work harder than normal to process the false perception of near and far objects which the eye has to focus on at one fixed distance (the screen surface).

krschultz 15y ago

As someone who finds just as much interest in sound quality as the lyrics, as critical of the picture as the storyline, I whole-heartedly agree. Most movie theaters are simply horrible. The sound is atrocious (overly loud and muddy is the most common problem) and the pictures have become dimmer and dimmer. Having to travel further to find a good screen just makes movie theaters that much worse. Give me a Blu-ray and my home setup for quality over most movie theaters. I used to get most movies off of Netflix and then see action movies in the theaters. I thought that I was better off seeing the spectacle on a large screen. But the technical inferiority of the typical movie theater has led me to flip my viewing habits. Now I really only see comedies in the theaters and watch everything else at home. You still can't replicate a crowded movie theater at a comedy, it makes it far funnier to laugh with other people.

colomon 15y ago
Oddly enough, your first analogy there nicely explains why I find this issue a big yawn. I cannot in a million years imagine having as much interest in sound quality as in lyrics. That's not to say I don't like good sound quality. But an awful lot of my listening is to 30-90 year old recordings, many recorded in less than ideal conditions. I listen because the music is brilliant. I can't imagine preferring to listen mediocre musicians because their recording is perfectly engineered and reproduced. My guess is most of us over 30 have spent most of our lives watching movies in less-than-ideal conditions. Today I don't feel any particular urge to upgrade from DVD. But I'd dearly love to upgrade the writing on most new movies I see...
- afterburner 15y ago
  I used to feel like you did about audio quality (and I don't even care about lyrics, I really am listening for the music itself), but once you get a nice set of speakers and balance them properly (preferably using one of the auto-balancing receivers that use a microphone and test signals), it really does make you appreciate it more. I find myself wanting to listen to music more when I hear on my nice speakers at home as opposed to my crappy-but-comfortable earphones at work. However, I am listening mostly to music from the last 5-10 years, so there is that.

chrismealy 15y ago

"It is as if the Industry is courting self-destruction." And how.

roadnottaken 15y ago

He said you can tell if a movie is digitally projected because it has a 'D' after it in the listing. Is that only in newspapers? I don't see that info on MovieFone, does anyone know where it can be found?

dangrossman 15y ago
I usually look up showtimes on Fandango and they clearly label any digital showings as "DP (Digital Projection) Showtimes". I usually see those for Regal theater listings, it could also be a matter of other chains not reporting the information.

ctdonath 15y ago

New iteration of an old problem. Not sure if I was the "Kodak spokesman" he referred to. --- Movie Answer Man Roger Ebert / February 7, 1999 Q. In your recent review of "Virus", you commented: "It didn't help that the print I saw was so underlit that often I could see hardly anything on the screen. Was that because the movie was filmed that way, or because the projector bulb was dimmed to extend its life span?" A dirty secret is that movies are under-lit in most theaters. Films are produced with the intent that they be projected at the brightness of 16 foot-lamberts. Field research by Kodak found that they are often shown at 8-10 foot-lamberts, well under the SMPTE standard for brightness. To get theaters up to this and other standards, Kodak is introducing the Screencheck Experience program. The under-lighting of screens may be acceptable for a few movies--lest you see the entirety of their badness--but in general it unnecessarily degrades the theater experience. (Carl Donath, Rochester NY) A. I've seen thousands of movies and I believe the Screencheck Experience program would only confirm that "Virus" was severely deprived of foot-lamberts when I saw it in a Chicago theater not a million miles from the Water Tower. Martin Scorsese, who travels with a light meter, once told me movies are projected at the correct brilliance in New York and Los Angeles, because that's where the filmmakers live, and they squawk. In a lot of other places, he said, the theaters turn down the juice to save on the replacement costs of expensive bulbs.

e40 15y ago
The common thread is that the corporations in the supply chain between you and the creators of the content really don't care much about the experience you have in the theater. They care about maximizing profit. We need to link, in their minds, their bad decision making and reduced profits. That is the only way any changes will be made. Of course, for my part, the movie going experience is horrible for additional reasons: commercials, talking patrons, and crying babies. I've seen one movie in the last 6 months and there was a crying baby and and a talking child in the theater. Had I not traveled 40 minutes to see the movie, I'd have asked for my money back immediately.
- marshray 15y ago
  You'd think with the panic the film industry is in they'd be falling over themselves trying to please the moviegoer. Instead we see them trying to treat you as a captive audience and squeeze more revenue out of your eyeballs. They forget who actually holds the money in every transaction: the customer, and few transactions are as thoroughly optional as movie tickets. I'm sure the talking and disrespect in the movie theater is a symptom of the problem. People no longer respect the theater because it's stopped respecting them, and in the process lost its own self-respect.

SoftwareMaven 15y ago

Given the fact I have no depth perception and all 3D does is reduce the sharpness of the image and force me to wear stupid glasses, the day 3D wins is the day after I leave the theaters for good.

sluckxz 15y ago

I have never seen a 3d movie yet. I went to my best local theater, that was built within the last ten years (There actually are only two local movie theaters.) to see How to Train Your Dragon in 3d. The opening credits/intro pieces looked incredible. I was so excited! When the movie started I realized there were only two tiny speakers at the front of the theater by the screen outputting audio. I started complaining to the point that i was getting shushed by some patrons. Mostly asking around who else noticed the audio was broken. After a few minutes I went to speak with the manager. Basically I was told I was the first person to complain and that was the way it was supposed to be. I couldn't fathom that to be correct so I continued to question the manager. Eventually she somewhat admitted that the audio, for some technical reason she couldn't explain was not properly able to be played on their 3d projection/audio system. So I left. I got the ticket price refunded but not the cost of my concessions. I couldn't help but feel mass amounts of consumers were being ripped off. I felt the team that produced that fine film would have been heartbroken to have seen the movie there. I know i was not willing to watch a movie, my first 3d movie! with audio the quality of a poorly pirated movie. I considered finding someone to complain too. I imagined the theater was breaking rules by showing the film with such a key component horribly crippled. But I did not. I have not been back to see a 3d movie. I would like to see one someday. I will go again, perhaps to a theater in another town, someday. I hope they get their "stuff" together. Articles like this do not inspire confidence.

kmfrk 15y ago

The entrepreneur in me wants to point out that any cinema owner worth his or her salt would get great PR from making it clear that they make sure that their projection (and sound) is as intended by the director, now that all the discussion is blowing up. At least owners who live in a place with nearby competing cinemas.

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gatlin 15y ago

I'm fortunate enough to live in Austin, TX and we have several Alamo Drafthouse locations here (http://originalalamo.com http://originalalamo.com). They treat movies like events: most locations during peak times show current fare, but they also have "Weird Wednesdays" and "Terror Tuesdays" with old movies, and similar specialty nights; they do MST3K-style riffing on old classics every once in a while; they serve food and beer; and they have a very draconian policy on talking during movies: do it twice and you're out. They also publish a program much like the local stage theaters each "season." They're very professional and enjoyable, and are the only theaters I visit these days. Otherwise, hell, I'll put up with my 480p projector and a hacked Wii over sticky ringtone-festivals across town at $7 a pop. Oh, and the sound and picture quality are un-paralleled, which was my point: theaters which care care about all aspects of the experience, not just technical excellence.

BrandonM 15y ago
> ...sticky ringtone-festivals across town at $7 a pop. I only wish movies were $7. The local AMC is currently $8.50 ($11.50 for 3D), and that's in Columbus which is generally cheaper than most big cities.

dhyasama 15y ago

Does anyone now of a good resource for theater reviews? Some quick Googling didn't pull anything up for me. It would be interesting to see a listing of which theaters use which projectors as well as sound system quality.

brxta 15y ago

OT: None of my coworkers recognized the "dying of the light" reference. [Insert rant about how nobody reads anymore.] It's Dylan Thomas: Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

clarebear 15y ago
When I read the title, I thought Ebert was dying because of this reference.
bcaulf 15y ago
Wow, that is sad. My knowledge of literature and poetry is spotty at best but I certainly picked up on the reference without a moment's thought. The ability to make literary references in a few words is a basic aspect of literacy. I suppose their brains are probably crowded with internet memes and celebrity facts and have no space for this sort of more beautiful trivia. Something I love about geeks is that their big brains tend to retain more references like this, so when they talk and listen they can use the whole language, including classic literature.

afterburner 15y ago

So, this is another case of Sony's locking stuff down impacting its practical quality/adoption? As a counter to one of the points in the article, I don't think people splitting 40/60 on 3D/2D is a "clear rejection" of 3D. 3D still gives a lot of people headaches or other discomforts, and it does cost more and look worse from bad angles (and you'll get the bad angles because there's less 3D theatres and they're packed). Maybe compared to a 3D event movie like Avatar, but that's not a fair comparison. EDIT: Also, I finally some ammunition to use against people who insist that I should turn the brightness/contrast on my TV down to be "theatre" correct. It's supposed to look brightier, even in the theatre! :)

ChuckMcM 15y ago

It is an interesting variation on what I think of as 'crapitalism.' The increase in profitability at the expense of quality. As Ebert points out, crapitalism works because consumers let it work. If there are enough people willing to pay to have the lower quality product, then the motivation to supply the higher quality product is removed. What is missing is a good feedback mechanism for 'fixing' the problem. Let's accept that Ebert is correct in that the cost of the projectionist and their training is the dominant factor in the quality of the projection. Now take what it would cost to hire a projectionist that did quality projections, and raise ticket prices to cover that cost. As the theatre which charges a higher ticket price than any other theatre in the area, you will find you get fewer patrons, that will reduce the number of tickets sold so you will need an even higher price to cover the lower volume. But the higher price will reduce the size of your market. Once you cross the price where the per-person ticket cost exceeds the expected BluRay release cost, your attendance will drop to nearly zero. It is mentioned in the article that people already feel that the 'home' experience with bluray is better than their theatre experience (for some number fraction of people). The message here is that movie theatres are essentially already dead, but like some species of shark they haven't realized it yet. It's only a question of 'when' they will cease to exist. Interestingly this will be blamed on "piracy." But the actual issue will be that the industry has moved into a place where the cost of presenting the information (the 'movie') is exceeding the marginal value of that information to the consumer. That has occurred because not only do people have more choices on how to consume the information, the relative costs of those choices are shifting. A 55" 1080p LCD television is now under $1000. That is a 'durable good' (3 - 5yr lifetime) so represents less than $30/month at 3 yrs or $20/month at 5 yrs of cash flow. It costs $20 for two people to go to the movies, it costs < $10 to rent a movie/stream it. So the value equation on 'cost to consume' is increasingly leaning toward the living room and the marginal value of seeing something in the theatre has to compete with that. I was thinking that digital projection would actually help theatres by reducing their labor costs but having seen a digital projection setup and the complexity and cost that are layered into the system to prevent copies from being made, the cost equation made things actually worse (you need more skill projectionists).

jodrellblank 15y ago
Apple does all right with higher costs. "HN advice is often raise your prices". "ChuckMcM Theaters. We're more expensive because that's what it costs to give you a better experience." "ChuckMcM Theaters. Our projectionists make a film look a million dollars, and it will only cost you $40. One showing per night." Etc.

jodrellblank 15y ago

Short-sighted, technically illiterate penny-pinchers are wounding a great art form. And a lot more than that.

erso 15y ago

Does anyone know of a resource that lists theaters based on projection and sound quality? I'd like to find out which theaters in Manhattan are worth going to.

io 15y ago

I'm sitting about 200 yards from the 90-year-old Virginia theater in Champaign. I need to get over there more often, I guess. :)