6 ms·

Different article from a month ago “Why can’t you buy a good web cam?” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504771 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=255047

Different article from a month ago “Why can’t you buy a good web cam?” https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504771 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504771 Lots of points. Big one being that the market is bifurcated into: 1. People who just want the minimum as cheap as possible. 2. People willing to pay enough to buy a mirrorless photo camera and plug it in as a web cam when they need it.

Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago
I'd be willing to pay for a good webcam, but I'm not willing to plug something as bulky and heavy as a mirrorless camera to my monitor, let alone to my laptop. I don't think that's a weird stance to have.
llampx 6y ago
I daresay that Group #2 comes out of necessity, since none of the webcams, even expensive ones, offer excellent image quality.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
I see this pattern everywhere - the market bifurcating into a) race-to-the-bottom garbage products that are barely crossing the legal threshold of fit for purpose, and are essentially a huge waste of natural resources, and b) quality goods sold to specialists or companies, usually severely overpriced (to cover low volume of sales, and/or just because the market will bear it). Does it have a name in economics? Are there good ways of preventing this from happening?
- AstralStorm 6y ago
  This is called market segmentation, and is for some reason considered a good thing. Actually it's the means to extract maximum cash out of customers who want anything more than the bare minimum.
  - novok 6y ago
    No, what he is describing is the lack of a middle market segment, not the fact there are market segments. My guess is the world's middle class is slowly dieing, so all you have are the poor and the rich.
- monadic3 6y ago
  Overproduction. Marxists write endlessly about the problem beginning with Marx himself.
- Der_Einzige 6y ago
  Mirror less cameras aren't really overpriced. You can get a good entry level canon (M50) and a quality kit lens for 600$ Or you can get a Sony A6100 and crappier kit lens for 700$ These cameras have significant strong (e.g. aps-c sensor size) capabilities not found in anything except mirrorless and DSLR cameras. Seems not to be overpriced to me. Overpriced is like what nvidia does to the quattro cards...
  - tomc1985 6y ago
    I wouldn't diss kit lenses... I built my reputation as a local photographer on a Nikon D3100-and-kit-lens Costco special. I could print shots at 13x19 and they'd come out crisp as hell Hell, that DX 18-55 kit lens had, in some ways, better optics than the FX 24-120 that cost more than the entire D3100 kit
    - Der_Einzige 6y ago
      The Sony kit lens is far worse than those other lenses though. How do they get a zoom with OIS for 99$? Skimping on the optics...
      - tomc1985 6y ago
        That's a shame. What's wrong with optics on that? I can't imagine the 18-55 kit lens costs much more.
- ksec 6y ago
  Polarization is used to describe something similar for Job Market. But I am not aware of an exact term for Product. Bad money drives out good could also be used to describe it, or basically Good Enough is the enemy of better and best. The problem is most people have very little understand of quality. And that is why Marketing matters. In WebCam, most dont cares much about the quality because you rarely use it. It wasn't until pandemic people were forced to use it more often did they realise how crap it was. Marketing is about educating customers why your product is better, how you should spend more on it. And Apple is an example, they are exceptionally good at it. > usually severely overpriced Most of the time I find that to be false. Not because of the market will bear it, but those market also requires constant innovation so profits are being funnel back into R&D. Generally speaking most "market will bear it" type of product disappear within 5 years when a competitor found they could make something better and cheaper.
- Animats 6y ago
  Sears. Sears' niche was in the middle. Everything was good, but not great, quality. Products were durable, came with good warranties, and "We Service What We Sell". Sears sold to the middle class, with middle prices. They went bankrupt with that model.
  - variaga 6y ago
    Sears didn't just "go bankrupt" - it was killed by CEO Eddie Lampert. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-eddie-lampert-set-sears-up-to-fail-2017-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-eddie-lampert-set-sears-...
    - mixmastamyk 6y ago
      s/killed/looted/
      - variaga 6y ago
        First one, then the other
  - nine_k 6y ago
    Maybe it's because the middle class itself is vanishing.
  - gumby 6y ago
    Sears didn't start that way. Their appliances and tools were top of the line, for instance. Their own decline was a whoo-corporate example of the described phenomenon, accelerated if not triggered by the execrable Eddie Lampert.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
    It was even better - they used to have 3 of everything. Want a hammer? They've got exactly 3: 1) One that's good enough to get the job done (Cheap, solid for a one-off project.) 2) One that's great (The one you probably want: More expensive, but tradeoffs are balanced for most people.) 3) One that's basically best in class, with a lifetime warranty (Expensive, basically professionals, you could hand it down to your grandkids) I still think there's a craving for this sort of thing, but online. Extensively curated products divided into 3 tiers.
- u678u 6y ago
  I'm coming around to the "b) quality goods sold to specialists or companies, usually severely overpriced", is actually fairly priced. It just seems expensive compared to the junk that is incredibly cheap. I used to be worried about getting ripped off I never bought good quality but now I appreciate it.
  - chapium 6y ago
    Its expensive because there is a market for the mid-range model, but to achieve midrange, one must top out at the high end.
aidenn0 6y ago
Except The cameras from today's article go up to $200 MSRP.
bluGill 6y ago
0. People who don't want a web cam on their computer at all. I know a lot of people who have put tape over their webcam. In fact that is the policy of several departments where I work. Some people use their web cams, but a large number of people I work with never use theirs. By using a cheap web cam manufactures can cover 1 without having to make a model without a webcam for those who don't want it - this would be more expensive than shipping a piece of tape to cover it just because they would need to design a second case and have a new part number.
cbozeman 6y ago
> People willing to pay enough to buy a mirrorless photo camera and plug it in as a web cam when they need it. Yeap. I feel like this is the way to go.
masklinn 6y ago
> 1. People who just want the minimum as cheap as possible. The webcams tested in TFA go up to $200 though, that's well into low-end smartphone.

Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago

I'd be willing to pay for a good webcam, but I'm not willing to plug something as bulky and heavy as a mirrorless camera to my monitor, let alone to my laptop. I don't think that's a weird stance to have.

llampx 6y ago

I daresay that Group #2 comes out of necessity, since none of the webcams, even expensive ones, offer excellent image quality.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

I see this pattern everywhere - the market bifurcating into a) race-to-the-bottom garbage products that are barely crossing the legal threshold of fit for purpose, and are essentially a huge waste of natural resources, and b) quality goods sold to specialists or companies, usually severely overpriced (to cover low volume of sales, and/or just because the market will bear it). Does it have a name in economics? Are there good ways of preventing this from happening?

AstralStorm 6y ago
This is called market segmentation, and is for some reason considered a good thing. Actually it's the means to extract maximum cash out of customers who want anything more than the bare minimum.
- novok 6y ago
  No, what he is describing is the lack of a middle market segment, not the fact there are market segments. My guess is the world's middle class is slowly dieing, so all you have are the poor and the rich.
monadic3 6y ago
Overproduction. Marxists write endlessly about the problem beginning with Marx himself.
Der_Einzige 6y ago
Mirror less cameras aren't really overpriced. You can get a good entry level canon (M50) and a quality kit lens for 600$ Or you can get a Sony A6100 and crappier kit lens for 700$ These cameras have significant strong (e.g. aps-c sensor size) capabilities not found in anything except mirrorless and DSLR cameras. Seems not to be overpriced to me. Overpriced is like what nvidia does to the quattro cards...
- tomc1985 6y ago
  I wouldn't diss kit lenses... I built my reputation as a local photographer on a Nikon D3100-and-kit-lens Costco special. I could print shots at 13x19 and they'd come out crisp as hell Hell, that DX 18-55 kit lens had, in some ways, better optics than the FX 24-120 that cost more than the entire D3100 kit
  - Der_Einzige 6y ago
    The Sony kit lens is far worse than those other lenses though. How do they get a zoom with OIS for 99$? Skimping on the optics...
    - tomc1985 6y ago
      That's a shame. What's wrong with optics on that? I can't imagine the 18-55 kit lens costs much more.
ksec 6y ago
Polarization is used to describe something similar for Job Market. But I am not aware of an exact term for Product. Bad money drives out good could also be used to describe it, or basically Good Enough is the enemy of better and best. The problem is most people have very little understand of quality. And that is why Marketing matters. In WebCam, most dont cares much about the quality because you rarely use it. It wasn't until pandemic people were forced to use it more often did they realise how crap it was. Marketing is about educating customers why your product is better, how you should spend more on it. And Apple is an example, they are exceptionally good at it. > usually severely overpriced Most of the time I find that to be false. Not because of the market will bear it, but those market also requires constant innovation so profits are being funnel back into R&D. Generally speaking most "market will bear it" type of product disappear within 5 years when a competitor found they could make something better and cheaper.
Animats 6y ago
Sears. Sears' niche was in the middle. Everything was good, but not great, quality. Products were durable, came with good warranties, and "We Service What We Sell". Sears sold to the middle class, with middle prices. They went bankrupt with that model.
- variaga 6y ago
  Sears didn't just "go bankrupt" - it was killed by CEO Eddie Lampert. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-eddie-lampert-set-sears-up-to-fail-2017-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-eddie-lampert-set-sears-...
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    s/killed/looted/
    - variaga 6y ago
      First one, then the other
- nine_k 6y ago
  Maybe it's because the middle class itself is vanishing.
- gumby 6y ago
  Sears didn't start that way. Their appliances and tools were top of the line, for instance. Their own decline was a whoo-corporate example of the described phenomenon, accelerated if not triggered by the execrable Eddie Lampert.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
  It was even better - they used to have 3 of everything. Want a hammer? They've got exactly 3: 1) One that's good enough to get the job done (Cheap, solid for a one-off project.) 2) One that's great (The one you probably want: More expensive, but tradeoffs are balanced for most people.) 3) One that's basically best in class, with a lifetime warranty (Expensive, basically professionals, you could hand it down to your grandkids) I still think there's a craving for this sort of thing, but online. Extensively curated products divided into 3 tiers.
u678u 6y ago
I'm coming around to the "b) quality goods sold to specialists or companies, usually severely overpriced", is actually fairly priced. It just seems expensive compared to the junk that is incredibly cheap. I used to be worried about getting ripped off I never bought good quality but now I appreciate it.
- chapium 6y ago
  Its expensive because there is a market for the mid-range model, but to achieve midrange, one must top out at the high end.

aidenn0 6y ago

Except The cameras from today's article go up to $200 MSRP.

bluGill 6y ago

0. People who don't want a web cam on their computer at all. I know a lot of people who have put tape over their webcam. In fact that is the policy of several departments where I work. Some people use their web cams, but a large number of people I work with never use theirs. By using a cheap web cam manufactures can cover 1 without having to make a model without a webcam for those who don't want it - this would be more expensive than shipping a piece of tape to cover it just because they would need to design a second case and have a new part number.

cbozeman 6y ago

> People willing to pay enough to buy a mirrorless photo camera and plug it in as a web cam when they need it. Yeap. I feel like this is the way to go.

masklinn 6y ago

> 1. People who just want the minimum as cheap as possible. The webcams tested in TFA go up to $200 though, that's well into low-end smartphone.