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This seems to be an almost universal problem at old, large engineering companies. Somewhere along the way (probably as they slowly ossify into bureaucracies) al

by taneq 6y ago

This seems to be an almost universal problem at old, large engineering companies. Somewhere along the way (probably as they slowly ossify into bureaucracies) all passion for innovation slowly withers. I don't know what the answer is but attitudes generally flow down from the top, so I'd imagine a good start would be to somehow re-install creative technical people in the top-end leadership roles.

ethbr0 6y ago
It's a consequence of development times. Large, complex projects take a lot of calendar time. It's generally more important to keep things from going awry than excelling. Consequently, you look around and see nothing but conservative people putting in their time. If you're someone more driven, you get tired and leave.
Zak 6y ago
You're not wrong, but there's also an element of justifiable conservatism. Aviation killed a lot of people before the associated industry and community mostly figured out how to make sure they didn't. Trying something innovative sometimes introduces a safety issue that hadn't even been considered.
AmericanChopper 6y ago
Bureaucratic inefficiency isn't the problem in this case. The people who make these systems aren't optimizing for UX, they're optimizing for safety and reliability. It's the same reason banks are still running things like their 30yo COBOL code. The cost of replacing it isn't the problem. The problem is, if it's been running reliably for 30 years, then what justification could you possibly come up with for accepting the risk of replacing it?
benhurmarcel 6y ago
I work in that industry, and I think it's very harsh to say that people have lost passion for innovation. Most engineers I've been around care about making a good product, and get excited about using better technology or finding a better design. However there's a constant care about making things that are certifiable, and make business sense (otherwise it's just not going to happen). It seems to me that it's difficult for people outside this type of industry to appreciate how certification impacts the decisions. We strive to make systems that are reliable, easy to use and maintain, and efficient; but they have to make their way to the customer, through the authorities and business constraints.
rbanffy 6y ago
> a good start would be to somehow re-install creative technical people in the top-end leadership roles. Hell no. In aeronautics, you want safety-conscious, technically conservative, quality paranoid engineers. You need that because you don't want to retrain pilots on the last release every Patch Tuesday. A lot of the design that goes into the cockpit is to minimize training costs and that is a major procurement driver (remember the 737 MAX?)

by taneq 6y ago

ethbr0 6y ago

It's a consequence of development times. Large, complex projects take a lot of calendar time. It's generally more important to keep things from going awry than excelling. Consequently, you look around and see nothing but conservative people putting in their time. If you're someone more driven, you get tired and leave.

Zak 6y ago

You're not wrong, but there's also an element of justifiable conservatism. Aviation killed a lot of people before the associated industry and community mostly figured out how to make sure they didn't. Trying something innovative sometimes introduces a safety issue that hadn't even been considered.

AmericanChopper 6y ago

Bureaucratic inefficiency isn't the problem in this case. The people who make these systems aren't optimizing for UX, they're optimizing for safety and reliability. It's the same reason banks are still running things like their 30yo COBOL code. The cost of replacing it isn't the problem. The problem is, if it's been running reliably for 30 years, then what justification could you possibly come up with for accepting the risk of replacing it?

benhurmarcel 6y ago

I work in that industry, and I think it's very harsh to say that people have lost passion for innovation. Most engineers I've been around care about making a good product, and get excited about using better technology or finding a better design. However there's a constant care about making things that are certifiable, and make business sense (otherwise it's just not going to happen). It seems to me that it's difficult for people outside this type of industry to appreciate how certification impacts the decisions. We strive to make systems that are reliable, easy to use and maintain, and efficient; but they have to make their way to the customer, through the authorities and business constraints.

rbanffy 6y ago

> a good start would be to somehow re-install creative technical people in the top-end leadership roles. Hell no. In aeronautics, you want safety-conscious, technically conservative, quality paranoid engineers. You need that because you don't want to retrain pilots on the last release every Patch Tuesday. A lot of the design that goes into the cockpit is to minimize training costs and that is a major procurement driver (remember the 737 MAX?)