9 ms·

It’s infuriating trying to use the touch screen in my wife’s minivan to change the radio station. I can’t imagine the frustration trying to use a touch screen

by blhack 6y ago

It’s infuriating trying to use the touch screen in my wife’s minivan to change the radio station. I can’t imagine the frustration trying to use a touch screen to fly a fighter jet. More buttons please!

nickff 6y ago
There are lots of buttons and switches on the throttle and stick. Most modern western fighters are designed for HOTAS (hands on throttle and stick) operation, where the pilot never takes their hands off the throttle and stick during combat.
topspin 6y ago
> I can’t imagine the frustration trying to use a touch screen to fly a fighter jet. A war plane is something you have to operate while it's burning, or while you're bleeding on it, or while you can't see properly because it's full of smoke or someone just blinded you with a laser. The adoption of touch screens in this sort of cockpit seems misguided. Particularly for anything related to controlling comms or navigation.
- Retric 6y ago
  That’s really not how we design modern jet fighters. Air combat involves a huge number of tradeoffs and ejecting is now the correct response to a wide range of issues. For example, the F-35 so engine so engine failure is likely to result in a lost aircraft. It’s basically been decided that we are going to spend silly money keeping a small number of absolutely cutting edge aircraft flying rather than thousands if not tens of thousands of of likely more efficient but less capable possibly drone aircraft. PS: To be clear it’s possible their making the correct choice. I personally doubt it, but I don’t have access to the kind of classified documents to justify things in one way or another. An effective labor weapon for example might render vastly cheaper drone fleets ineffective.
  - jki275 6y ago
    No, the post above is exactly correct. Ejecting from an aircraft is an absolute last resort, and you stand a good chance of dying or being badly injured if you have to do it, and even if you survive the ejection, the parachute ride, and the landing, it's a better than even chance you're going to be captured and beaten, tortured, or killed on the ground. That's if you land on land of course -- if you land in the water you might just drown or never be found.
    - Retric 6y ago
      > it’s better than even chance you’re going to be captured and beaten, tortured, or killed on the ground. That’s simply not the reality of modern fighter jets. The vast majority of time is going to be spent flying over either open ocean or friendly territory. That’s been true even if you’re only looking at recent combat missions. Anyway, single engine aircraft are always going to be at higher risk for mechanical failure, yet that’s the chosen design. Just look through this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_military_aircraft_(2010–2019) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incident.... In commercial aviation 4 crashes per year worldwide not that great, in military aviation 4 crashes a month worldwide is a very good month.
      - topspin 6y ago
        > That’s simply not the reality of modern fighter jets. Even Iraq managed to capture US and allied pilots. I think I'll forego the rest; you're reality and actual reality are a bit too divergent.
        Retric 6y ago
        Again > it’s better than even chance you’re going to be captured and beaten, tortured, or killed on the ground Is demonstrably false. War is still an extremely unpleasant business, but the term acceptable losses applies even in peacetime. Every mission training or otherwise is rolling the dice that the aircraft will be lost. Yet, they still send pilots up knowing those risks in preparation for war. Aircraft designs really do involve similar tradeoffs and injured, dead, or captured pilots really are part of the equation.
cccc4all 6y ago
The touchscreen is not there for UX. The touch screen is there to charge $200,000 for basically $500 ipad. The software costs for touchscreen probably is in the $ millions.
jay_kyburz 6y ago
I've always wanted to build a big rig of buttons to surround my pc monitor that I could program for various functions I do every day. When working on Bioshock I had a strip of buttons that could be programmed to send keystrokes like it was a keyboard. I was working in Unreal Engine on the Xbox 360. I could plug these keys it into the dev kit, and with one click could enter all kinds of obscure console commands I could never remember. Was great. Update: was one of these. https://xkeys.com/ https://xkeys.com/
- dkersten 6y ago
  I have a StreamDeck[1] that I use for various random things. There's an open source driver for it too that you can drive from Python[2], letting you run Python code when a button is pressed. You can do some cool stuff with it (eg I've used mine to make HTTP requests on button press) [1] https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/stream-deck https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/stream-deck [2] https://github.com/abcminiuser/python-elgato-streamdeck https://github.com/abcminiuser/python-elgato-streamdeck
  - sundvor 6y ago
    Ah, yes - writing our comments in parallel. :) The SD is great. Thanks for the link to Python code, I'll check it out.
    - dkersten 6y ago
      Haha, yes, indeed! The python library is quite easy to use and lets you go beyond what the official application allows (plus, I use it on Linux). I actually looked at those XKeys ones first, but IIRC they were a little too expensive for what I wanted (yes, the StreamDeck isn't that cheap either, but its easier to use out of the box) StreamDeck is great for non-streaming tasks. I'm very happy with it.
- sundvor 6y ago
  XKeys looks nice! I've got a StreamDeck XL mounted under my monitor, in a button box; its capabilities as a macro machine are vastly underrated, although a few people are catching on that it's not just for live content creation. It's absolutely amazing when doing remote work to be able to fire up OBS Studio, the meeting join, microphone control etc in a single click - and I have that just on one page, along with other meeting controls such as camera scenes. Another for VS Studio, there's integration with that which is quite useful to send commands directly. I have all my most of ten work websites on buttons of their own. As mentioned, I also have button boxes however I'm still working out what the best way of sending commands would be; Joy2Key seem to mess up alt keys sometimes, making it sticky. When it worked it was nice, imagine adjusting text size just twisting a rotary for example.
ertemplin 6y ago
Lots of general aviation cockpits are moving to touch screens too. For example Garmin just got the G3X Touch approved for certified aircraft: https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/682215/pn/G3X-TCERT-13 https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/682215/pn/G3X-TCERT-13 The G3000 integrated flight deck is pretty much the default in new business jets too. In my opinion the touch screens are a lot easier to use than the old G1000 screens except for when you are getting tossed around in turbulence. Fortunately, there are still physical buttons for all of the "safety critical" or "time critical" inputs such as configuring the autopilot, changing radio frequencies, or adjusting the barometric pressure for the altimeter. Source: I am a private pilot and have used the G1000, G300, and G3X touch.
leesec 6y ago
Not all touch screens are created equal. The one in my Tesla is as good as a phone or Ipad

by blhack 6y ago

nickff 6y ago

There are lots of buttons and switches on the throttle and stick. Most modern western fighters are designed for HOTAS (hands on throttle and stick) operation, where the pilot never takes their hands off the throttle and stick during combat.

topspin 6y ago

> I can’t imagine the frustration trying to use a touch screen to fly a fighter jet. A war plane is something you have to operate while it's burning, or while you're bleeding on it, or while you can't see properly because it's full of smoke or someone just blinded you with a laser. The adoption of touch screens in this sort of cockpit seems misguided. Particularly for anything related to controlling comms or navigation.

Retric 6y ago
That’s really not how we design modern jet fighters. Air combat involves a huge number of tradeoffs and ejecting is now the correct response to a wide range of issues. For example, the F-35 so engine so engine failure is likely to result in a lost aircraft. It’s basically been decided that we are going to spend silly money keeping a small number of absolutely cutting edge aircraft flying rather than thousands if not tens of thousands of of likely more efficient but less capable possibly drone aircraft. PS: To be clear it’s possible their making the correct choice. I personally doubt it, but I don’t have access to the kind of classified documents to justify things in one way or another. An effective labor weapon for example might render vastly cheaper drone fleets ineffective.
- jki275 6y ago
  No, the post above is exactly correct. Ejecting from an aircraft is an absolute last resort, and you stand a good chance of dying or being badly injured if you have to do it, and even if you survive the ejection, the parachute ride, and the landing, it's a better than even chance you're going to be captured and beaten, tortured, or killed on the ground. That's if you land on land of course -- if you land in the water you might just drown or never be found.
  - Retric 6y ago
    > it’s better than even chance you’re going to be captured and beaten, tortured, or killed on the ground. That’s simply not the reality of modern fighter jets. The vast majority of time is going to be spent flying over either open ocean or friendly territory. That’s been true even if you’re only looking at recent combat missions. Anyway, single engine aircraft are always going to be at higher risk for mechanical failure, yet that’s the chosen design. Just look through this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_military_aircraft_(2010–2019) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incident.... In commercial aviation 4 crashes per year worldwide not that great, in military aviation 4 crashes a month worldwide is a very good month.
    - topspin 6y ago
      > That’s simply not the reality of modern fighter jets. Even Iraq managed to capture US and allied pilots. I think I'll forego the rest; you're reality and actual reality are a bit too divergent.
      - Retric 6y ago
        Again > it’s better than even chance you’re going to be captured and beaten, tortured, or killed on the ground Is demonstrably false. War is still an extremely unpleasant business, but the term acceptable losses applies even in peacetime. Every mission training or otherwise is rolling the dice that the aircraft will be lost. Yet, they still send pilots up knowing those risks in preparation for war. Aircraft designs really do involve similar tradeoffs and injured, dead, or captured pilots really are part of the equation.

cccc4all 6y ago

The touchscreen is not there for UX. The touch screen is there to charge $200,000 for basically $500 ipad. The software costs for touchscreen probably is in the $ millions.

jay_kyburz 6y ago

I've always wanted to build a big rig of buttons to surround my pc monitor that I could program for various functions I do every day. When working on Bioshock I had a strip of buttons that could be programmed to send keystrokes like it was a keyboard. I was working in Unreal Engine on the Xbox 360. I could plug these keys it into the dev kit, and with one click could enter all kinds of obscure console commands I could never remember. Was great. Update: was one of these. https://xkeys.com/ https://xkeys.com/

dkersten 6y ago
I have a StreamDeck[1] that I use for various random things. There's an open source driver for it too that you can drive from Python[2], letting you run Python code when a button is pressed. You can do some cool stuff with it (eg I've used mine to make HTTP requests on button press) [1] https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/stream-deck https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/stream-deck [2] https://github.com/abcminiuser/python-elgato-streamdeck https://github.com/abcminiuser/python-elgato-streamdeck
- sundvor 6y ago
  Ah, yes - writing our comments in parallel. :) The SD is great. Thanks for the link to Python code, I'll check it out.
  - dkersten 6y ago
    Haha, yes, indeed! The python library is quite easy to use and lets you go beyond what the official application allows (plus, I use it on Linux). I actually looked at those XKeys ones first, but IIRC they were a little too expensive for what I wanted (yes, the StreamDeck isn't that cheap either, but its easier to use out of the box) StreamDeck is great for non-streaming tasks. I'm very happy with it.
sundvor 6y ago
XKeys looks nice! I've got a StreamDeck XL mounted under my monitor, in a button box; its capabilities as a macro machine are vastly underrated, although a few people are catching on that it's not just for live content creation. It's absolutely amazing when doing remote work to be able to fire up OBS Studio, the meeting join, microphone control etc in a single click - and I have that just on one page, along with other meeting controls such as camera scenes. Another for VS Studio, there's integration with that which is quite useful to send commands directly. I have all my most of ten work websites on buttons of their own. As mentioned, I also have button boxes however I'm still working out what the best way of sending commands would be; Joy2Key seem to mess up alt keys sometimes, making it sticky. When it worked it was nice, imagine adjusting text size just twisting a rotary for example.

ertemplin 6y ago

Lots of general aviation cockpits are moving to touch screens too. For example Garmin just got the G3X Touch approved for certified aircraft: https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/682215/pn/G3X-TCERT-13 https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/682215/pn/G3X-TCERT-13 The G3000 integrated flight deck is pretty much the default in new business jets too. In my opinion the touch screens are a lot easier to use than the old G1000 screens except for when you are getting tossed around in turbulence. Fortunately, there are still physical buttons for all of the "safety critical" or "time critical" inputs such as configuring the autopilot, changing radio frequencies, or adjusting the barometric pressure for the altimeter. Source: I am a private pilot and have used the G1000, G300, and G3X touch.

leesec 6y ago

Not all touch screens are created equal. The one in my Tesla is as good as a phone or Ipad