9 ms·

Thanks for building this! I love that this exists, and want to encourage you to continue. Like a lot of people working in tech, I've had persistent neck and po

by npunt 6y ago

Thanks for building this! I love that this exists, and want to encourage you to continue. Like a lot of people working in tech, I've had persistent neck and posture issues for years. I'd love to see you expand to cover those, focusing on the many smaller muscles in the neck like SCM/Scalenes/Occipitals/etc. Another great area to expand is 'click where you have pain' and it would recommend certain stretches, weights, trigger points, etc. There are common pain referral patterns that most people do not know about and I imagine that would be very helpful for people who don't have easy access to physical therapy or even feel they are candidates for it. After casually mentioning my neck issues to people over the years, I've found so many people open up about persistent pain they have but that they're not addressing because it hasn't reached a bad enough point. I think that's an ideal audience to target with online resources like musclewiki.

dehrmann 6y ago
> Like a lot of people working in tech, I've had persistent neck and posture issues for years. I'd love to see you expand to cover those, focusing on the many smaller muscles in the neck like SCM/Scalenes/Occipitals/etc. I did some things on-and-off for posture (mostly rear delts), but what I did consistently, and think helped the most, was heavy (for me) deadlifts. I'm curious: how many pullups can you do? I ask because they take a lot of lat strength, and your lats do a lot of work holding up your back.
- npunt 6y ago
  Unfortunately I'm limited in what I can do overhead due to an old neck injury, so pullups are out. Most upper body stuff causes me pain so I have to be extra careful dialing in the right movements, weight, and reps. I've heard deadlifts are one of the best exercises, I can't wait to get back to PT and get a personal trainer so I can do those correctly. I doubt I've done enough with lats.
  - ketzo 6y ago
    Lateral pulls are basically sitting pullups, and tend to be a lot easier on the neck. They're associated with a big ol' piece of gym equipment, which might be.... tough to get your hands on right now, but definitely look into them. You're right, though, that deadlifts (performed correctly and safely!) are pretty amazing for your back in general.
    - dehrmann 6y ago
      > tough to get your hands on right now If you've got something up high to tie a band to, that's something.
  - Moru 6y ago
    Have you tried archery? My neck and shoulderproblems got a lot better after I started with that.
    - Hitton 6y ago
      Doesn't archery normally cause uneven muscle development between right and left side of a body?
      - Moru 6y ago
        Especially for youth yes, but there are exercises for that too.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- danburbridge 6y ago
  Another vote for deadlifting here. With a desk based day job and being a keen cyclist my posterior chain muscles were under-developed compared to my quads etc - deadlifting helped strengthen my glutes, hamstrings and lower back significantly and pretty much all of my back pain has gone. I didn't use a coach, but did study a lot of videos on deadlift form and also videoed myself to check I was doing it properly.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
alfon 6y ago
I hear you on this problem. You might consider checking out the articles and videos from https://mskneurology.com/ https://mskneurology.com/. It's a superb resource.
edgyquant 6y ago
For real, first thing I did was try and click the neck but it’s unclickable
alfonsodev 6y ago
I came to comment the same as you, I saw it in the traps muscle, it's shown as one, but it is interesting to know that it has 3 parts[1], and there are other exercises more effective for the mid section like face pull. About the "where you have the pain idea" I love it, it would be also cool to learn about the antagonist muscles. (Disclaimer I'm not an expert). I think a common bad posture in-front of the computer is the one that rotates your shoulders forward which overloads some muscles in the chest, which are antagonist of the middle traps, middle traps get weak, and your back falls forwards, face pull is great exercise to make them stronger. Another common one for those sitting long hours, is the tightness of the psoas, which can cause hip problems, and knee problems if you try to run without stretching, I think the antagonist is the buttocks, that gets weak from sitting and you would need to exercise to correct the hip problems. Don't trust my comments, I just wanted to put two examples of mechanism that I learned, but I don't have enough knowledge to explain it properly or be 100% sure this is correct, always consult with a pro. [1] https://www.physio-pedia.com/File:Trapezius_animation.gif https://www.physio-pedia.com/File:Trapezius_animation.gif
amelius 6y ago
Perhaps also add exercises which do the opposite, i.e. relax a muscle. I'm dealing with bruxism, and find it very difficult to relax my jaw.
dkarl 6y ago
A great niche to target would be assistance for people who have a muscle group they don't use because of long-time postural issues or simply never having learned to use it. For an issue like this, it doesn't work to simply do an exercise that supposedly works the muscle. Even if the muscle is the limiting link in the lift, if your body isn't using it, it won't get stronger. For example, my mid-upper-back was lax because of typical nerd posture. Even though it limited my squat, years of squatting didn't force those muscles to do anything. I just had a really weak squat that relied on other muscles compensating. Then one day I ran across a suggestion to do bat wings and hold at the top for 20-30 seconds, and I became close friends with some muscles in my back that I barely knew existed. A web site showing you how to discover each muscle or muscle group in your body (bat wings for deep mid-back, glute bridge for glutes, etc.) would be AMAZING, and I bet people would get referred there all the time from places like r/Fitness where people go for advice.
- Phlogistique 6y ago
  The thing is - there would not be a one-size-fit-all exercise for each muscle group; you would rather need an exercise for each combination of A, B in "muscle A is weak but surrounding muscle B is strong"
  - Afton 6y ago
    I think that there are fewer likely culprits than you might think. Most lifting coaches end up heavily relying on only a few cues per exercise, because there aren't that many common pathologies. So something like this could be useful if couched in the normal "not medical advice" sort of way. Yeah, this might not apply to you, but if you find that you e.g. squat with too much forward lean, here is a small set of exercises to augment your workout that you should try for 6 weeks and see if it helps. Something like that would seem useful to a lot of lower-mid weightlifters who don't have a real lifting coach.
  - dkarl 6y ago
    I'm not sure if the B dimension affects exercise choice. If it does, it could be covered by providing a short list of exercises to try for activating each muscle group A. That way the user doesn't have to figure out which muscle(s) B are compensating, which could be challenging for a lot of people who need this information. In my case, I'm still not sure exactly how my body was compensating for the muscles in my back that weren't being utilized.
sjtgraham 6y ago
Smart people tend to overthink things, i.e. looking for exercises that isolate smaller muscles. If you have neck, back, or posture issues the chances are you will benefit greatly from just lifting weights. Before I started training I had terrible back pains and spontaneous spasms in the neck, which went away within weeks of regular training. Moreover, if I ever miss training for too long the pain returns. Focus on building up the strength to do respectable weight on the main compound lifts. Your body will thank you.
- johnmaguire2013 6y ago
  On the other hand, I spent a year ramping up my bicycling, and then went on a 7-day trip spanning 535 miles. I did some serious damage to my knees because while my main cycling muscles had the strength for the trip, some of my stabilizing muscles did not. I couldn't get back on the bike without knee pain for months. Now I am totally out of shape. I could go to PT, as I was given a referral, but it's expensive, and I prefer self-help resources.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    PT may be expensive, but a good therapist is worth it. I abused my body by basically not moving throughout my 20s, and even once I got in shape I was prone to various injuries. The PT got me through a lower back injury, a hip injury, a shoulder injury, and a leg injury. These were not caused (except for the back) by traumas (in the case of the back, trauma exacerbated an existing issue), but mostly by some combination of weak muscles, poor form, poor flexibility, or overuse (overuse for me, a person in even marginally better shape wouldn't have had issues at my activity level). I kept up a lot of the things I did/learned there and, other than the back which will be a perennial issue, have not had any recurrence. There's a lot of benefit to finding someone that teaches you both what to do and how to do it, and is also better informed and more competent than most fitness trainers. The good ones will also walk you through a basic physiology course so you can understand the why of it all (why did I become injured, why does this prevent or reduce the risk of a future injury).
    - 6y ago
castlecrasher2 6y ago
Others likely have covered this, but to add my experience I also had neck/posture issues and pain until I started doing compounds (squats, deadlifts) at least three times a week. For me, physical therapy did nothing, and I suspect my issue was fundamental in that my musculoskeletal system was underdeveloped and working out was the only way to fix it.
sternsio 6y ago
Gravity boots have fixed all of my back/neck/posture problems from sitting at a computer. Inversion is the key to decompressing the spine/hips/neck and you only need to do it a few times a week for ~10min each time. I go to a local park and hang upside down from a sturdy pull-up bar for 2-4min three times. You could also do it at home with a pull-up bar, or get even fancier and buy an inversion table for ~$200. I know I'm sounding like an infomercial here, but it really works.

by npunt 6y ago

dehrmann 6y ago

> Like a lot of people working in tech, I've had persistent neck and posture issues for years. I'd love to see you expand to cover those, focusing on the many smaller muscles in the neck like SCM/Scalenes/Occipitals/etc. I did some things on-and-off for posture (mostly rear delts), but what I did consistently, and think helped the most, was heavy (for me) deadlifts. I'm curious: how many pullups can you do? I ask because they take a lot of lat strength, and your lats do a lot of work holding up your back.

npunt 6y ago
Unfortunately I'm limited in what I can do overhead due to an old neck injury, so pullups are out. Most upper body stuff causes me pain so I have to be extra careful dialing in the right movements, weight, and reps. I've heard deadlifts are one of the best exercises, I can't wait to get back to PT and get a personal trainer so I can do those correctly. I doubt I've done enough with lats.
- ketzo 6y ago
  Lateral pulls are basically sitting pullups, and tend to be a lot easier on the neck. They're associated with a big ol' piece of gym equipment, which might be.... tough to get your hands on right now, but definitely look into them. You're right, though, that deadlifts (performed correctly and safely!) are pretty amazing for your back in general.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    > tough to get your hands on right now If you've got something up high to tie a band to, that's something.
- Moru 6y ago
  Have you tried archery? My neck and shoulderproblems got a lot better after I started with that.
  - Hitton 6y ago
    Doesn't archery normally cause uneven muscle development between right and left side of a body?
    - Moru 6y ago
      Especially for youth yes, but there are exercises for that too.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
danburbridge 6y ago
Another vote for deadlifting here. With a desk based day job and being a keen cyclist my posterior chain muscles were under-developed compared to my quads etc - deadlifting helped strengthen my glutes, hamstrings and lower back significantly and pretty much all of my back pain has gone. I didn't use a coach, but did study a lot of videos on deadlift form and also videoed myself to check I was doing it properly.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

alfon 6y ago

I hear you on this problem. You might consider checking out the articles and videos from https://mskneurology.com/ https://mskneurology.com/. It's a superb resource.

edgyquant 6y ago

For real, first thing I did was try and click the neck but it’s unclickable

alfonsodev 6y ago

I came to comment the same as you, I saw it in the traps muscle, it's shown as one, but it is interesting to know that it has 3 parts[1], and there are other exercises more effective for the mid section like face pull. About the "where you have the pain idea" I love it, it would be also cool to learn about the antagonist muscles. (Disclaimer I'm not an expert). I think a common bad posture in-front of the computer is the one that rotates your shoulders forward which overloads some muscles in the chest, which are antagonist of the middle traps, middle traps get weak, and your back falls forwards, face pull is great exercise to make them stronger. Another common one for those sitting long hours, is the tightness of the psoas, which can cause hip problems, and knee problems if you try to run without stretching, I think the antagonist is the buttocks, that gets weak from sitting and you would need to exercise to correct the hip problems. Don't trust my comments, I just wanted to put two examples of mechanism that I learned, but I don't have enough knowledge to explain it properly or be 100% sure this is correct, always consult with a pro. [1] https://www.physio-pedia.com/File:Trapezius_animation.gif https://www.physio-pedia.com/File:Trapezius_animation.gif

amelius 6y ago

Perhaps also add exercises which do the opposite, i.e. relax a muscle. I'm dealing with bruxism, and find it very difficult to relax my jaw.

dkarl 6y ago

A great niche to target would be assistance for people who have a muscle group they don't use because of long-time postural issues or simply never having learned to use it. For an issue like this, it doesn't work to simply do an exercise that supposedly works the muscle. Even if the muscle is the limiting link in the lift, if your body isn't using it, it won't get stronger. For example, my mid-upper-back was lax because of typical nerd posture. Even though it limited my squat, years of squatting didn't force those muscles to do anything. I just had a really weak squat that relied on other muscles compensating. Then one day I ran across a suggestion to do bat wings and hold at the top for 20-30 seconds, and I became close friends with some muscles in my back that I barely knew existed. A web site showing you how to discover each muscle or muscle group in your body (bat wings for deep mid-back, glute bridge for glutes, etc.) would be AMAZING, and I bet people would get referred there all the time from places like r/Fitness where people go for advice.

Phlogistique 6y ago
The thing is - there would not be a one-size-fit-all exercise for each muscle group; you would rather need an exercise for each combination of A, B in "muscle A is weak but surrounding muscle B is strong"
- Afton 6y ago
  I think that there are fewer likely culprits than you might think. Most lifting coaches end up heavily relying on only a few cues per exercise, because there aren't that many common pathologies. So something like this could be useful if couched in the normal "not medical advice" sort of way. Yeah, this might not apply to you, but if you find that you e.g. squat with too much forward lean, here is a small set of exercises to augment your workout that you should try for 6 weeks and see if it helps. Something like that would seem useful to a lot of lower-mid weightlifters who don't have a real lifting coach.
- dkarl 6y ago
  I'm not sure if the B dimension affects exercise choice. If it does, it could be covered by providing a short list of exercises to try for activating each muscle group A. That way the user doesn't have to figure out which muscle(s) B are compensating, which could be challenging for a lot of people who need this information. In my case, I'm still not sure exactly how my body was compensating for the muscles in my back that weren't being utilized.

sjtgraham 6y ago

Smart people tend to overthink things, i.e. looking for exercises that isolate smaller muscles. If you have neck, back, or posture issues the chances are you will benefit greatly from just lifting weights. Before I started training I had terrible back pains and spontaneous spasms in the neck, which went away within weeks of regular training. Moreover, if I ever miss training for too long the pain returns. Focus on building up the strength to do respectable weight on the main compound lifts. Your body will thank you.

johnmaguire2013 6y ago
On the other hand, I spent a year ramping up my bicycling, and then went on a 7-day trip spanning 535 miles. I did some serious damage to my knees because while my main cycling muscles had the strength for the trip, some of my stabilizing muscles did not. I couldn't get back on the bike without knee pain for months. Now I am totally out of shape. I could go to PT, as I was given a referral, but it's expensive, and I prefer self-help resources.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  PT may be expensive, but a good therapist is worth it. I abused my body by basically not moving throughout my 20s, and even once I got in shape I was prone to various injuries. The PT got me through a lower back injury, a hip injury, a shoulder injury, and a leg injury. These were not caused (except for the back) by traumas (in the case of the back, trauma exacerbated an existing issue), but mostly by some combination of weak muscles, poor form, poor flexibility, or overuse (overuse for me, a person in even marginally better shape wouldn't have had issues at my activity level). I kept up a lot of the things I did/learned there and, other than the back which will be a perennial issue, have not had any recurrence. There's a lot of benefit to finding someone that teaches you both what to do and how to do it, and is also better informed and more competent than most fitness trainers. The good ones will also walk you through a basic physiology course so you can understand the why of it all (why did I become injured, why does this prevent or reduce the risk of a future injury).
  - 6y ago

castlecrasher2 6y ago

Others likely have covered this, but to add my experience I also had neck/posture issues and pain until I started doing compounds (squats, deadlifts) at least three times a week. For me, physical therapy did nothing, and I suspect my issue was fundamental in that my musculoskeletal system was underdeveloped and working out was the only way to fix it.

sternsio 6y ago

Gravity boots have fixed all of my back/neck/posture problems from sitting at a computer. Inversion is the key to decompressing the spine/hips/neck and you only need to do it a few times a week for ~10min each time. I go to a local park and hang upside down from a sturdy pull-up bar for 2-4min three times. You could also do it at home with a pull-up bar, or get even fancier and buy an inversion table for ~$200. I know I'm sounding like an infomercial here, but it really works.