5 ms·

Treasury nominee Yellen is looking to curtail use of cryptocurrency

19 points by xvector 6y ago

xvector 6y ago
Can’t say I’m a fan. Blatant governmental power grab. Yellen is 74 years old. I wonder if she even understands what crypto is and what it brings to the world of finance.
- selfishgene 6y ago
  More to the point, she was Fed Reserve Chairman under Obama, which makes her a prime suspect here. Crypto currency is a direct assault on that agency's ability to levy the most insidious and regressive tax of all on the American people in order to subsidize the billions of dollars each year that Congress wastes on pork-barrel spending: Inflation.
  - arthurcolle 6y ago
    As an active trader in these markets, it's frustrating that a 74 year old's brief and broadly incorrect statements can cause a 7.5% downward move over the course of a day. Cash is the #1 driver of illegal transactions. Darknet markets are a drop in the bucket of aggregate global illegal activities compared to daily transactions in various international fiat currencies. She's just preaching the narrative that she must, as another puppet of the state. Frustrating and sad, as someone interesting in the underlying technology and the ability to democratize payments for people around the world.
    - xvector 6y ago
      We desperately need term and age limits for office. We cannot have ancient people that don’t understand technology regulating it. They simply drag down future generations. Is it ageist? Sure. If anyone has a better solution in mind, they should propose it.
      - arthurcolle 6y ago
        There should be some ability to more easily disseminate the fact that they have said factually incorrect things, or some mechanism that broadly communicates the correct facts. Or maybe call them back to live TV and have someone actually confront them with the verifiable information.
selfishgene 6y ago
Much of government spending is an illicit use of taxpayer's money. So what's the disconnect?
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  Not Invented Here syndrome?
jqpabc123 6y ago
Subject so-called "stable coins" to audits to verify that they are indeed fully backed as claimed. If this cannot be verified, it is effectively fraud and subject to prosecution. Do this and watch bitcoin freefall.
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  I think that's the plan.
- xvector 6y ago
  DAI is the most trustworthy stablecoin you can buy today but Bitcoin is nowhere close to free fall.
  - jqpabc123 6y ago
    The flow of Tether into Bitcoin generally correlates to the rise in price... Tether is being used to manipulate bitcoin up and down. https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/attorney-general-james-announces-court-order-against-crypto-currency-company https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/attorney-general-james-... https://www.forbes.com/sites/robkniaz/2020/12/16/the-problem-with-bitcoin-at-20000/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/robkniaz/2020/12/16/the-problem...
    - qes 6y ago
      Researchers at UC Berkeley disagree https://voxeu.org/article/stable-coins-dont-inflate-crypto-markets https://voxeu.org/article/stable-coins-dont-inflate-crypto-m...
      - jqpabc123 6y ago
        Did these researchers review their financial records? I don't think so. If Tether is really backed as they claim, why not prove it to the AG of NY? Instead they delay and obscure as they mint tethers and inflate bitcoin. https://bitcoinwarrior.net/2021/01/deltecbank-reveals-huge-position-in-bitcoin-why-tether-might-be-in-trouble-again/ https://bitcoinwarrior.net/2021/01/deltecbank-reveals-huge-p...
lazzlazzlazz 6y ago
Yellen said: > "Many [cryptocurrencies] are used, at least in a transactions sense, mainly for illicit financing." Chainalysis, a firm that does compliance and criminal research professionally for governments, says that the total funds received by criminal entities is only 0.34% of all activity in crypto.[1] Hopefully the department does its due diligence and realizes that rhetoric is diverging from reality. [1]: https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2021-crypto-crime-report-intro-ransomware-scams-darknet-markets https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2021-crypto-crime-repor...
- jcranmer 6y ago
  I'm somewhat skeptical of the analysis when it revised the share of criminal activity in 2019 from 1.1% to 2.1%--in other words, more than doubling that value. That revision is on the basis of "the identification of more addresses associated with criminal activity that were active in 2019." Your citation that it's "only 0.34%" is a somewhat dishonest distillation, because the report itself advises that the number is only for known criminal activity, and that the number is expected to rise over time as well. What I would instead like to see, and that this report does not illuminate at all, is a breakdown of how all transactions looks. How many transactions are related to cryptocurrency-specific transactions, such as mixing coins or moving between hot wallets and cold wallets? How many transactions are related to speculation (e.g., trading one cryptocurrency for another)? How many transactions are associated with known entities, e.g. the Bitcoin address of an online (non-darknet) marketplace? How many transactions are unclassified?
  - lazzlazzlazz 6y ago
    Even if 90% of illicit financing transactions are being missed by Chainalysis, the original claim is that "many are used [...] mainly for illicit financing" is outright false.
- MarkMc 6y ago
  By 'transactions sense' I think Yellen means using cryptocurrency to buy and sell goods and services. The Chainalysis figure seems to include people simply swapping USD for Bitcoin. So in that sense Yellen may be correct
anm89 6y ago
The dollar is the most pervasive money laundering channel in history, yet this never seems to bother anyone at the treasury.

19 points by xvector 6y ago

Can’t say I’m a fan. Blatant governmental power grab. Yellen is 74 years old. I wonder if she even understands what crypto is and what it brings to the world of finance.

selfishgene 6y ago
More to the point, she was Fed Reserve Chairman under Obama, which makes her a prime suspect here. Crypto currency is a direct assault on that agency's ability to levy the most insidious and regressive tax of all on the American people in order to subsidize the billions of dollars each year that Congress wastes on pork-barrel spending: Inflation.
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  As an active trader in these markets, it's frustrating that a 74 year old's brief and broadly incorrect statements can cause a 7.5% downward move over the course of a day. Cash is the #1 driver of illegal transactions. Darknet markets are a drop in the bucket of aggregate global illegal activities compared to daily transactions in various international fiat currencies. She's just preaching the narrative that she must, as another puppet of the state. Frustrating and sad, as someone interesting in the underlying technology and the ability to democratize payments for people around the world.
  - xvector 6y ago
    We desperately need term and age limits for office. We cannot have ancient people that don’t understand technology regulating it. They simply drag down future generations. Is it ageist? Sure. If anyone has a better solution in mind, they should propose it.
    - arthurcolle 6y ago
      There should be some ability to more easily disseminate the fact that they have said factually incorrect things, or some mechanism that broadly communicates the correct facts. Or maybe call them back to live TV and have someone actually confront them with the verifiable information.

selfishgene 6y ago

Much of government spending is an illicit use of taxpayer's money. So what's the disconnect?

arthurcolle 6y ago
Not Invented Here syndrome?

jqpabc123 6y ago

Subject so-called "stable coins" to audits to verify that they are indeed fully backed as claimed. If this cannot be verified, it is effectively fraud and subject to prosecution. Do this and watch bitcoin freefall.

arthurcolle 6y ago
I think that's the plan.
xvector 6y ago
DAI is the most trustworthy stablecoin you can buy today but Bitcoin is nowhere close to free fall.
- jqpabc123 6y ago
  The flow of Tether into Bitcoin generally correlates to the rise in price... Tether is being used to manipulate bitcoin up and down. https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/attorney-general-james-announces-court-order-against-crypto-currency-company https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2019/attorney-general-james-... https://www.forbes.com/sites/robkniaz/2020/12/16/the-problem-with-bitcoin-at-20000/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/robkniaz/2020/12/16/the-problem...
  - qes 6y ago
    Researchers at UC Berkeley disagree https://voxeu.org/article/stable-coins-dont-inflate-crypto-markets https://voxeu.org/article/stable-coins-dont-inflate-crypto-m...
    - jqpabc123 6y ago
      Did these researchers review their financial records? I don't think so. If Tether is really backed as they claim, why not prove it to the AG of NY? Instead they delay and obscure as they mint tethers and inflate bitcoin. https://bitcoinwarrior.net/2021/01/deltecbank-reveals-huge-position-in-bitcoin-why-tether-might-be-in-trouble-again/ https://bitcoinwarrior.net/2021/01/deltecbank-reveals-huge-p...

lazzlazzlazz 6y ago

Yellen said: > "Many [cryptocurrencies] are used, at least in a transactions sense, mainly for illicit financing." Chainalysis, a firm that does compliance and criminal research professionally for governments, says that the total funds received by criminal entities is only 0.34% of all activity in crypto.[1] Hopefully the department does its due diligence and realizes that rhetoric is diverging from reality. [1]: https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2021-crypto-crime-report-intro-ransomware-scams-darknet-markets https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2021-crypto-crime-repor...

jcranmer 6y ago
I'm somewhat skeptical of the analysis when it revised the share of criminal activity in 2019 from 1.1% to 2.1%--in other words, more than doubling that value. That revision is on the basis of "the identification of more addresses associated with criminal activity that were active in 2019." Your citation that it's "only 0.34%" is a somewhat dishonest distillation, because the report itself advises that the number is only for known criminal activity, and that the number is expected to rise over time as well. What I would instead like to see, and that this report does not illuminate at all, is a breakdown of how all transactions looks. How many transactions are related to cryptocurrency-specific transactions, such as mixing coins or moving between hot wallets and cold wallets? How many transactions are related to speculation (e.g., trading one cryptocurrency for another)? How many transactions are associated with known entities, e.g. the Bitcoin address of an online (non-darknet) marketplace? How many transactions are unclassified?
- lazzlazzlazz 6y ago
  Even if 90% of illicit financing transactions are being missed by Chainalysis, the original claim is that "many are used [...] mainly for illicit financing" is outright false.
MarkMc 6y ago
By 'transactions sense' I think Yellen means using cryptocurrency to buy and sell goods and services. The Chainalysis figure seems to include people simply swapping USD for Bitcoin. So in that sense Yellen may be correct

anm89 6y ago

The dollar is the most pervasive money laundering channel in history, yet this never seems to bother anyone at the treasury.