4 ms·

I also have some extensions with users in the tens of thousands and can corroborate all of this. Out of curiosity I strung one "buyer" along to see how much the

I also have some extensions with users in the tens of thousands and can corroborate all of this. Out of curiosity I strung one "buyer" along to see how much they would offer and they quoted $0.20 per user. With the amount of money being thrown about, as sad as it is, it's no surprise that some devs end up selling out their users. In my opinion extensions have to be one of the worst sources of spyware these days. I am now extremely conservative with what extensions I use, and definitely would only use extensions from open source projects or companies that I trust. Something needs to change. As long as extensions have such weak sandboxing along with such poor app review, Google/Mozilla etc will keep willingly shipping spyware unbeknownst to their users. At least some mechanism of creating and verifying reproducible builds would go a long way.

Someone 6y ago
If you can make thousands a month on tens of thousands of users, that’s (very much ballpark) $0.10 per user per month. Paying $0.20 per user to buy that seems extremely low. Also, on the sandboxing/app review of extensions, does anybody know how well Apple vets Safari extensions? (I guess that could be hard if the evil parts are time-triggered, certainly if the code also is obfuscated (possibly in the name of minification)
- SamBam 6y ago
  Who said they were earning thousands a month for their extension?
  - wffurr 6y ago
    If the malware seller can make $0.10 / user / month, then paying the extension developer a one-time fee of $0.20 * users is only three months to pay back. Thus considered a low price for the extension developer but still attractive to the extension developer who likely earns $0 / user from their extension.
    - blu_ 6y ago
      He didn't ask about the math, he wanted to know where it was said that they could earn "tens of thousands" (and I believe that is stated in the middle of the root post of this thread)
koheripbal 6y ago
The only extensions I have are privacy extensions. Do people on here really install a bunch of random 3rd party extensions?
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  probably not on here no. But out there... definitely yes.
- Scoundreller 6y ago
  Privacy extensions can be crap too. Cutting off web-based analytics makes the telemetry from those users much more valuable. Ghostery anyone? https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/59wiln/is_ghostery_spyware/ https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/59wiln/is_ghostery...
- toomanybeersies 6y ago
  I wouldn't class The Great Suspender as a "random 3rd party extension", it's a performance tool.
marcus_holmes 6y ago
Also, a business model for extensions would be good - even if it's just an official "tip box" that enthusiastic users can pay into
rsync 6y ago
"In my opinion extensions have to be one of the worst sources of spyware these days. I am now extremely conservative with what extensions I use, and definitely would only use extensions from open source projects or companies that I trust." I completely agree. There are a number of features I would really like to use in Firefox that are available only as extensions and I continue to resist installing them. In fact, the only extension I use is uBlock origin - which is based on a fairly rich social and community history behind that project and its author ...
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
  Stick to the Firefox Recommended Addons list. Those are the only ones which are code reviewed by real people. And uBlock Origin is in that list.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- brownbat 6y ago
  More and more I feel like we need another new manifesto. We need to pull people together who have a passion for making the world's computers just work and build a brand around simple extensions and apps that are TRULY FREE. As in, they don't have features removed that you can only unlock through a paid version, they don't have ads, they don't sell tracking data, source is open, and anyone can support them through optional donations, but they don't nag you for anything. Stallman distinguished between free as in freedom and free as in beer. I don't think he went far enough. I'm more radical because we are users first, all of us, and only by using great software are we able to be makers. And I think about my typical experiences as a user. Often, using a piece of software that was pretty great, then suddenly out of nowhere, a popup, it was a free trial and the full version costs some exhorbitant amount. Or the software that was suddenly bought out and shut down. Or the "five star" app that is already full of spam. Then I contrast that with those programs that just don't ask for anything. You keep expecting it, but it's just genuinely something truly free that works. They weren't optimizing revenue, they were optimizing function. That feeling of finding that perfect FOSS or community developed app, it's just sublime. Some user had a problem they wanted to solve, once they solved it, it was just a gift to the world, implicitly asking people at most to think about paying it forward. We should make stuff that emulates our ideal experiences, not our worst experiences. We should spread that same kind of joy we've felt. If one in a thousand pays it forward, the options spread. The oak tree doesn't waste time trying to extract revenue from every squirrel, it knows one in a thousand will bury an acorn somewhere and build the forest. And it's especially needed now. There was a time in the early internet where there was just abundant freeware on the internet. Postcardware, donationware, people genuinely trying to make an entire open source ecosystem. Then we got app stores. "Curated," but not for that ultimate sublime user experience. Curated for sustainable profit back to the marketplace. Curated to make the biggest revenue earners find the exact bottom line of scumminess without getting banned, and encourage them to duplicate that model, then inspire copycats flooding the entire app ecosystem. I know the rebuttal, devs need to get paid. Sure, I'm not an absolutist; this path isn't for everyone or every project. But I've worked with some people who make many of their contributions as free as possible, and they include some incredibly talented and hardworking folks who might be a little bit crazy. The thing that unites them all is that they're passionate about making the world a better place. They are lucky to have the freedom to do it, but it's still praiseworthy that they use that freedom for everyone, when it'd be easy not to bother. I know there are free cycles in the system out there where people code out of a desire to help. Just need to have a unifying purpose, a call to action, that's how so many of the great movements like open source originally started. Just have to have 1% of people believe in it, then so many incredible things happen.

Someone 6y ago

If you can make thousands a month on tens of thousands of users, that’s (very much ballpark) $0.10 per user per month. Paying $0.20 per user to buy that seems extremely low. Also, on the sandboxing/app review of extensions, does anybody know how well Apple vets Safari extensions? (I guess that could be hard if the evil parts are time-triggered, certainly if the code also is obfuscated (possibly in the name of minification)

SamBam 6y ago
Who said they were earning thousands a month for their extension?
- wffurr 6y ago
  If the malware seller can make $0.10 / user / month, then paying the extension developer a one-time fee of $0.20 * users is only three months to pay back. Thus considered a low price for the extension developer but still attractive to the extension developer who likely earns $0 / user from their extension.
  - blu_ 6y ago
    He didn't ask about the math, he wanted to know where it was said that they could earn "tens of thousands" (and I believe that is stated in the middle of the root post of this thread)

koheripbal 6y ago

The only extensions I have are privacy extensions. Do people on here really install a bunch of random 3rd party extensions?

marcus_holmes 6y ago
probably not on here no. But out there... definitely yes.
Scoundreller 6y ago
Privacy extensions can be crap too. Cutting off web-based analytics makes the telemetry from those users much more valuable. Ghostery anyone? https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/59wiln/is_ghostery_spyware/ https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/59wiln/is_ghostery...
toomanybeersies 6y ago
I wouldn't class The Great Suspender as a "random 3rd party extension", it's a performance tool.

marcus_holmes 6y ago

Also, a business model for extensions would be good - even if it's just an official "tip box" that enthusiastic users can pay into

rsync 6y ago

"In my opinion extensions have to be one of the worst sources of spyware these days. I am now extremely conservative with what extensions I use, and definitely would only use extensions from open source projects or companies that I trust." I completely agree. There are a number of features I would really like to use in Firefox that are available only as extensions and I continue to resist installing them. In fact, the only extension I use is uBlock origin - which is based on a fairly rich social and community history behind that project and its author ...

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
Stick to the Firefox Recommended Addons list. Those are the only ones which are code reviewed by real people. And uBlock Origin is in that list.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
brownbat 6y ago
More and more I feel like we need another new manifesto. We need to pull people together who have a passion for making the world's computers just work and build a brand around simple extensions and apps that are TRULY FREE. As in, they don't have features removed that you can only unlock through a paid version, they don't have ads, they don't sell tracking data, source is open, and anyone can support them through optional donations, but they don't nag you for anything. Stallman distinguished between free as in freedom and free as in beer. I don't think he went far enough. I'm more radical because we are users first, all of us, and only by using great software are we able to be makers. And I think about my typical experiences as a user. Often, using a piece of software that was pretty great, then suddenly out of nowhere, a popup, it was a free trial and the full version costs some exhorbitant amount. Or the software that was suddenly bought out and shut down. Or the "five star" app that is already full of spam. Then I contrast that with those programs that just don't ask for anything. You keep expecting it, but it's just genuinely something truly free that works. They weren't optimizing revenue, they were optimizing function. That feeling of finding that perfect FOSS or community developed app, it's just sublime. Some user had a problem they wanted to solve, once they solved it, it was just a gift to the world, implicitly asking people at most to think about paying it forward. We should make stuff that emulates our ideal experiences, not our worst experiences. We should spread that same kind of joy we've felt. If one in a thousand pays it forward, the options spread. The oak tree doesn't waste time trying to extract revenue from every squirrel, it knows one in a thousand will bury an acorn somewhere and build the forest. And it's especially needed now. There was a time in the early internet where there was just abundant freeware on the internet. Postcardware, donationware, people genuinely trying to make an entire open source ecosystem. Then we got app stores. "Curated," but not for that ultimate sublime user experience. Curated for sustainable profit back to the marketplace. Curated to make the biggest revenue earners find the exact bottom line of scumminess without getting banned, and encourage them to duplicate that model, then inspire copycats flooding the entire app ecosystem. I know the rebuttal, devs need to get paid. Sure, I'm not an absolutist; this path isn't for everyone or every project. But I've worked with some people who make many of their contributions as free as possible, and they include some incredibly talented and hardworking folks who might be a little bit crazy. The thing that unites them all is that they're passionate about making the world a better place. They are lucky to have the freedom to do it, but it's still praiseworthy that they use that freedom for everyone, when it'd be easy not to bother. I know there are free cycles in the system out there where people code out of a desire to help. Just need to have a unifying purpose, a call to action, that's how so many of the great movements like open source originally started. Just have to have 1% of people believe in it, then so many incredible things happen.