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> In the 50-second video, Ma, dressed in a navy pullover, spoke directly to the camera from a room with grey marble walls and a striped carpet. It was not clear

> In the 50-second video, Ma, dressed in a navy pullover, spoke directly to the camera from a room with grey marble walls and a striped carpet. It was not clear from the video or the Tianmu News article where he was speaking from. Uh, resurfacing from a fancy prison cell, perhaps? Can anyone find the video? EDIT: Here's the raw video: https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1351751456827719681/video/1 https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/13517514568277196.... If you watch his eye movements, it looks like he's reading from a script.

nwotnagrom 6y ago
Check this link out. Its the video from the Global Times Twitter Feed. https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3118454/alibaba-founder-jack-ma-delivers-video-speech-chinas-rural-teachers https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3118454/alibaba-f...
- sebmellen 6y ago
  Thank you for that. The direct link to the tweet is https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1351751456827719681/video/1 https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/13517514568277196.... That does appear to be the best quality video available. Looks like it could be some form of house arrest.
  - cheweh 6y ago
    The video at https://tech.ifeng.com/c/83BS98wwWV9 https://tech.ifeng.com/c/83BS98wwWV9 is higher quality.
echelon 6y ago
This regime is no joke. We need to offer Hong Kong and Chinese citizens a fast and easy path to citizenship in the West. If we do not brain drain China, rehabilitate our manufacturing capability, and prevent the CCP's rise to global dominance, we'll all have our liberties threatened. It could start with an offer to Jack Ma. Offer for him to move to SF or Miami. Watch for the "ha, ha, no thanks", but see the impact it has on Chinese citizens. They're not stupid, and they know what's going on. Edit: 1. Brain drain. Adopt China's best, brightest, and most creative. 2. Culture war. Tell Disney it's time to stop being cozy and make a "Chernobyl" style film about Tiananmen, Uyghurs, Tibetans, et al. 3. Build up our global manufacture. Vietnam, India, Mexico, Africa, South America. 4. Build capacity domestically, especially for strategic needs. Build lots of factories on the border. Jobs programs. But also allow immigrant workers and provide a path to citizenship. 5. Commit to our strong allies in a trade pact. Europe, Japan, Korea... We can route out this evil. But we have to work hard. This is an existential crisis. The US and its allies should all be on board with this plan and commit to doing similarly.
- system2 6y ago
  >easy path to citizenship in the West Since when the U.S. providing free citizenships to the countries in need of help?
  - pelario 6y ago
    Not saying I agree with parent, but: i) "The west" is much bigger than the US ii) Right of political asylum has been "a thing" for a long while, specially for people fleeing authoritarian regimes.
    - swarnie_ 6y ago
      A) Its not really a US problem, its a UK one. B) The US isn't exactly a hot ticket item at the moment. How many armed riots y'all had this year?
  - PhantomGremlin 6y ago
    Since when the U.S. providing free citizenships to the countries in need of help? Since its inception. It may not be immediately apparent, but immigration to the USA was routine in its history and is still very common now. For example in the late 1970s we accepted refugees from Vietnam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people In the early 1980s we granted citizenship to illegal aliens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control... and new President Biden wants to do it again. In the 1990s we allowed many Somalis to immigrate here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_American https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_American There are countless more examples, old and recent.
- sebmellen 6y ago
  The battle for science and research talent is probably the biggest silent battle that's ever gone on, and the general public is completely unaware. I really, really hope the new administration has someone who cranks up the "brain drain agenda" to 10. The only challenge is doing so without importing too many spies or covert actors — and that's a REAL challenge. Perhaps it would be easier to aggressively brain-drain China's allies (not that there are any I can think of)... I was quite shocked that an opthamologist at a clinic I regularly visit resigned after being ousted as a member of the Thousand Talents Program, here in San Diego [0]. [0]: https://timesofsandiego.com/education/2019/07/08/ucsd-doctor-resigns-thousand-talents-china/ https://timesofsandiego.com/education/2019/07/08/ucsd-doctor...
slickrick216 6y ago
But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.
- sebmellen 6y ago
  I don't know if Ma is quite at that point yet... Maybe they've put him through a short stint in Room 101.
  - slickrick216 6y ago
    You know I was thinking the same it’s more room 101 as well but the look in his eyes as pointed out by the parent comment.
- edgyquant 6y ago
  Isn’t it, “he loved the party?” Great line to end the story either way.
nickysielicki 6y ago
I don't think it matters that he's reading off of a script. Imagine Bezos in the same situation, do you honestly think he wouldn't delegate the responsibility of speechwriting to his team of publicists?
- sebmellen 6y ago
  Fair point, but his speech also seems forced, and the location is quite strange. If Bezos or Gates were to give an address like this, they'd have a great camera setup in their fancy home office with good lighting. For reference, take a look at Gates appearing on the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyFT8qXcOrM https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyFT8qXcOrM. Ma looks the opposite here.
  - chrischen 6y ago
    At this point you're just applying your cultural bias.
    - sebmellen 6y ago
      Curious how so?
      - chrischen 6y ago
        Assuming the standards of appearance for public figures are based on specific people from America of specific ethnic and cultural backgrounds. I mean if I video conferenced with you right now you'd probably speculate I've been coopted by Communist powers because simply because my background isn't up to your standards (it'd be of a water heater and radon pipes since I'm in the basement).
        howlgarnish 6y ago
        With all due respect, you are presumably also not the multibillionaire CEO of one of the world's largest Internet companies. If I saw Zuck, Satya or Sundar do a video conference looking like they're chained to the radiator in somebody's basement, I'd also be kinda concerned. (At least for the latter two. Zuck, maybe not so much.)
FooBarWidget 6y ago
How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will people say that the CCP staged that too? It's getting too ridiculous. Cyrus Janssen, an expat who has worked in China for 12 years, blogged about this. I think he has a much more accurate view of what happened. Jack Ma was laying low, not jailed. And the rrason why his comments pissed off people is because the phase of development China is now in, rather than a generic "thou shall not criticize the party" https://cyrusjanssen.substack.com/p/trump-free-speech-and-where-is-jack https://cyrusjanssen.substack.com/p/trump-free-speech-and-wh... In contrast to China's reputation here in the west, the govt actually DOES listen to criticism. Yes they censor at the same time. Calling for violence and overthrow of the govt is not allowed. But at the same time they do listen, and for the past 20 years they've continuously reformed policy based on citizen's criticism on social media, or those submitted via official channels. The key is to be constructive, and to criticize policy rather than people. This also applies to this latest incident. Yes it bugged a lot of people in the government, but at the same time they're really looking into the actual criticism made and whether there's a need for reform. I am from China and I have family in China.
- duxup 6y ago
  He could be running a wonky business financially, and a victim of something else.
- echelon 6y ago
  > How much more mental gymnastics do we need? > I am from China and I have family in China. Would you publicly curse Xi and denounce the CCP? Please realize also that many in the West (myself included) are freaking out about China and are trying to counter its rise. This is a narrative that fits into their world view. I'm more worried about CCP fascism and hypersonic nukes than I am about climate change. I'm worried about what happens when Chinese software developers outnumber us, and all of our tech has been cheaply duplicated and sold around the world. When we have no other advantage, what then? Do we implode? I'm worried about our companies and politicians adopting capitalism and democracy with Chinese characteristics. --- Edit: downvotes trigger HN's post filter, so I'm including my replies below --- > That doesn't seem to fit the narrative that people have the agency to think differently from the status quo Americans would like to impose upon the world. Last time I was in China, a good third of the people I spoke in depth with openly discussed the corruption and expressed dissenting views. This was in private, of course. There were more than a few die-hard pro-CCP folks, but the talk of corruption was far more pervasive. You're still probably right. > Is this Great Replacement propaganda? It does sound a little like it. That's not at all my intention. I think it's appropriate to worry about a country copying tech that has a much larger, more productive population to sustain growth. Their protectionism doesn't help. But really this is all rooted in the single-party fascism. I'd be fine if China were a democracy. I might even move there myself. I don't care about my genes or my race or my progeny. I want the world to grow freer with every passing year. The CCP represents a major stumbling block in my worldview and sense of security. > You sit down and try to succeed on merit rather than privilege for once in your life Okay, that's a good point. But I'm working my ass off as it is, so I don't know how much latitude for adjustment I have here.
Ballas 6y ago
That video looks strange to me - either it is a green screen or it has some compression artefacts that I have not seen before (or perhaps something else).
SkyMarshal 6y ago
Thanks for digging up that video. Telling that the Global Times (CPC-affiliated media) refers to him as the "former executive chairman of #Alibaba", and that he's making the video from some "rural teacher-themed social welfare event". This isn't what normally happens to billionaire corporate executives, unless they've been convicted of violating the law.
- sebmellen 6y ago
  Good point — the whole matter really is quite strange, whatever one believes about China/the CPC aside. It does seem there's an established pipeline for this sort of "deplatforming" that the CPC has gotten very adept at pushing high-status people through.
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    Kill the chicken to scare the monkey. It's less strange than time tested.
eecc 6y ago
Most CEOs will read from a PR script at opening ceremonies for events and conferences. Apparently - as mentioned in the article and clarified in other comments here - it was a PR moment in a charitable event he’s been doing for a while. No need to make it up to be more eerie than it is
Bombthecat 6y ago
Jesus, somehow, this looks terrifying.
blackrock 6y ago
Yeah dude. The Chinese are so technologically advanced, that they built an AI robot that looks exactly like the real Jack Ma. The real Jack Ma is getting his kidneys harvested right now, because apparently, that’s what the CCP does to their own citizens (according to western media). /s
- sebmellen 6y ago
  They literally do harvest organs from their own citizens. That's not up for dispute. See https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-china-rights-idUSKCN1TI236 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-china-rights-idUS....
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    FLG affiliated china tribunal / ETAC is propaganda on par with epochetimes / qanon in terms of credibility. They launder their claims via US NGOs to MSM - turducken of creating misinformation. Prior to current China/FVEY spat, formal government level investigations by AU/US have found FLG sponsored reports to be non-credible. https://web.archive.org/web/20120205064042/http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20120205064042/http://www.usemba... https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/4b6fe16df.pdf https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/4b6fe16df.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20090620050738/http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2006/None/20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090620050738/http://www.americ... At this time, Chinese political structure was _thoroughly_ infiltrated by CIA assets. There's also orthogonal indicators like amount of immuno-suppressant drugs in Chinese market cannot support a vast shadow organ harvesting system like FLG claims. There's a reason no credible institutions without FLG sponsorship have ever endorsed these findings. Including Mike Pompeo, at the urging for US lawmakers no less, who got drunk on FLG/epochtime coolaid. There's a special tier of ridiculous claims when even Pompeo can't spin it against China. FLG organ harvesting / vivisection has always been atrocity porn for useful idiots. It shouldn't be surprising these narratives are finally gaining traction during a period where media landscape is generating loads of them, when epochetimes is the #1 news paper on the appstore. I say this as someone with several FLG family members who was prosecuted in China, they are delusional cultists. Everything is peaceful and good intensions until they convince themselves not to seek medical advice and dies from completely preventable illnesses.

nwotnagrom 6y ago

Check this link out. Its the video from the Global Times Twitter Feed. https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3118454/alibaba-founder-jack-ma-delivers-video-speech-chinas-rural-teachers https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3118454/alibaba-f...

sebmellen 6y ago
Thank you for that. The direct link to the tweet is https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1351751456827719681/video/1 https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/13517514568277196.... That does appear to be the best quality video available. Looks like it could be some form of house arrest.
- cheweh 6y ago
  The video at https://tech.ifeng.com/c/83BS98wwWV9 https://tech.ifeng.com/c/83BS98wwWV9 is higher quality.

echelon 6y ago

This regime is no joke. We need to offer Hong Kong and Chinese citizens a fast and easy path to citizenship in the West. If we do not brain drain China, rehabilitate our manufacturing capability, and prevent the CCP's rise to global dominance, we'll all have our liberties threatened. It could start with an offer to Jack Ma. Offer for him to move to SF or Miami. Watch for the "ha, ha, no thanks", but see the impact it has on Chinese citizens. They're not stupid, and they know what's going on. Edit: 1. Brain drain. Adopt China's best, brightest, and most creative. 2. Culture war. Tell Disney it's time to stop being cozy and make a "Chernobyl" style film about Tiananmen, Uyghurs, Tibetans, et al. 3. Build up our global manufacture. Vietnam, India, Mexico, Africa, South America. 4. Build capacity domestically, especially for strategic needs. Build lots of factories on the border. Jobs programs. But also allow immigrant workers and provide a path to citizenship. 5. Commit to our strong allies in a trade pact. Europe, Japan, Korea... We can route out this evil. But we have to work hard. This is an existential crisis. The US and its allies should all be on board with this plan and commit to doing similarly.

system2 6y ago
>easy path to citizenship in the West Since when the U.S. providing free citizenships to the countries in need of help?
- pelario 6y ago
  Not saying I agree with parent, but: i) "The west" is much bigger than the US ii) Right of political asylum has been "a thing" for a long while, specially for people fleeing authoritarian regimes.
  - swarnie_ 6y ago
    A) Its not really a US problem, its a UK one. B) The US isn't exactly a hot ticket item at the moment. How many armed riots y'all had this year?
- PhantomGremlin 6y ago
  Since when the U.S. providing free citizenships to the countries in need of help? Since its inception. It may not be immediately apparent, but immigration to the USA was routine in its history and is still very common now. For example in the late 1970s we accepted refugees from Vietnam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people In the early 1980s we granted citizenship to illegal aliens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control... and new President Biden wants to do it again. In the 1990s we allowed many Somalis to immigrate here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_American https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_American There are countless more examples, old and recent.
sebmellen 6y ago
The battle for science and research talent is probably the biggest silent battle that's ever gone on, and the general public is completely unaware. I really, really hope the new administration has someone who cranks up the "brain drain agenda" to 10. The only challenge is doing so without importing too many spies or covert actors — and that's a REAL challenge. Perhaps it would be easier to aggressively brain-drain China's allies (not that there are any I can think of)... I was quite shocked that an opthamologist at a clinic I regularly visit resigned after being ousted as a member of the Thousand Talents Program, here in San Diego [0]. [0]: https://timesofsandiego.com/education/2019/07/08/ucsd-doctor-resigns-thousand-talents-china/ https://timesofsandiego.com/education/2019/07/08/ucsd-doctor...

slickrick216 6y ago

But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

sebmellen 6y ago
I don't know if Ma is quite at that point yet... Maybe they've put him through a short stint in Room 101.
- slickrick216 6y ago
  You know I was thinking the same it’s more room 101 as well but the look in his eyes as pointed out by the parent comment.
edgyquant 6y ago
Isn’t it, “he loved the party?” Great line to end the story either way.

nickysielicki 6y ago

I don't think it matters that he's reading off of a script. Imagine Bezos in the same situation, do you honestly think he wouldn't delegate the responsibility of speechwriting to his team of publicists?

sebmellen 6y ago
Fair point, but his speech also seems forced, and the location is quite strange. If Bezos or Gates were to give an address like this, they'd have a great camera setup in their fancy home office with good lighting. For reference, take a look at Gates appearing on the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyFT8qXcOrM https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyFT8qXcOrM. Ma looks the opposite here.
- chrischen 6y ago
  At this point you're just applying your cultural bias.
  - sebmellen 6y ago
    Curious how so?
    - chrischen 6y ago
      Assuming the standards of appearance for public figures are based on specific people from America of specific ethnic and cultural backgrounds. I mean if I video conferenced with you right now you'd probably speculate I've been coopted by Communist powers because simply because my background isn't up to your standards (it'd be of a water heater and radon pipes since I'm in the basement).
      - howlgarnish 6y ago
        With all due respect, you are presumably also not the multibillionaire CEO of one of the world's largest Internet companies. If I saw Zuck, Satya or Sundar do a video conference looking like they're chained to the radiator in somebody's basement, I'd also be kinda concerned. (At least for the latter two. Zuck, maybe not so much.)

FooBarWidget 6y ago

How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will people say that the CCP staged that too? It's getting too ridiculous. Cyrus Janssen, an expat who has worked in China for 12 years, blogged about this. I think he has a much more accurate view of what happened. Jack Ma was laying low, not jailed. And the rrason why his comments pissed off people is because the phase of development China is now in, rather than a generic "thou shall not criticize the party" https://cyrusjanssen.substack.com/p/trump-free-speech-and-where-is-jack https://cyrusjanssen.substack.com/p/trump-free-speech-and-wh... In contrast to China's reputation here in the west, the govt actually DOES listen to criticism. Yes they censor at the same time. Calling for violence and overthrow of the govt is not allowed. But at the same time they do listen, and for the past 20 years they've continuously reformed policy based on citizen's criticism on social media, or those submitted via official channels. The key is to be constructive, and to criticize policy rather than people. This also applies to this latest incident. Yes it bugged a lot of people in the government, but at the same time they're really looking into the actual criticism made and whether there's a need for reform. I am from China and I have family in China.

duxup 6y ago
He could be running a wonky business financially, and a victim of something else.
echelon 6y ago
> How much more mental gymnastics do we need? > I am from China and I have family in China. Would you publicly curse Xi and denounce the CCP? Please realize also that many in the West (myself included) are freaking out about China and are trying to counter its rise. This is a narrative that fits into their world view. I'm more worried about CCP fascism and hypersonic nukes than I am about climate change. I'm worried about what happens when Chinese software developers outnumber us, and all of our tech has been cheaply duplicated and sold around the world. When we have no other advantage, what then? Do we implode? I'm worried about our companies and politicians adopting capitalism and democracy with Chinese characteristics. --- Edit: downvotes trigger HN's post filter, so I'm including my replies below --- > That doesn't seem to fit the narrative that people have the agency to think differently from the status quo Americans would like to impose upon the world. Last time I was in China, a good third of the people I spoke in depth with openly discussed the corruption and expressed dissenting views. This was in private, of course. There were more than a few die-hard pro-CCP folks, but the talk of corruption was far more pervasive. You're still probably right. > Is this Great Replacement propaganda? It does sound a little like it. That's not at all my intention. I think it's appropriate to worry about a country copying tech that has a much larger, more productive population to sustain growth. Their protectionism doesn't help. But really this is all rooted in the single-party fascism. I'd be fine if China were a democracy. I might even move there myself. I don't care about my genes or my race or my progeny. I want the world to grow freer with every passing year. The CCP represents a major stumbling block in my worldview and sense of security. > You sit down and try to succeed on merit rather than privilege for once in your life Okay, that's a good point. But I'm working my ass off as it is, so I don't know how much latitude for adjustment I have here.

Ballas 6y ago

That video looks strange to me - either it is a green screen or it has some compression artefacts that I have not seen before (or perhaps something else).

SkyMarshal 6y ago

Thanks for digging up that video. Telling that the Global Times (CPC-affiliated media) refers to him as the "former executive chairman of #Alibaba", and that he's making the video from some "rural teacher-themed social welfare event". This isn't what normally happens to billionaire corporate executives, unless they've been convicted of violating the law.

sebmellen 6y ago
Good point — the whole matter really is quite strange, whatever one believes about China/the CPC aside. It does seem there's an established pipeline for this sort of "deplatforming" that the CPC has gotten very adept at pushing high-status people through.
- dirtyid 6y ago
  Kill the chicken to scare the monkey. It's less strange than time tested.

eecc 6y ago

Most CEOs will read from a PR script at opening ceremonies for events and conferences. Apparently - as mentioned in the article and clarified in other comments here - it was a PR moment in a charitable event he’s been doing for a while. No need to make it up to be more eerie than it is

Bombthecat 6y ago

Jesus, somehow, this looks terrifying.

blackrock 6y ago

Yeah dude. The Chinese are so technologically advanced, that they built an AI robot that looks exactly like the real Jack Ma. The real Jack Ma is getting his kidneys harvested right now, because apparently, that’s what the CCP does to their own citizens (according to western media). /s

sebmellen 6y ago
They literally do harvest organs from their own citizens. That's not up for dispute. See https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-china-rights-idUSKCN1TI236 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-china-rights-idUS....
- dirtyid 6y ago
  FLG affiliated china tribunal / ETAC is propaganda on par with epochetimes / qanon in terms of credibility. They launder their claims via US NGOs to MSM - turducken of creating misinformation. Prior to current China/FVEY spat, formal government level investigations by AU/US have found FLG sponsored reports to be non-credible. https://web.archive.org/web/20120205064042/http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20120205064042/http://www.usemba... https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/4b6fe16df.pdf https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/4b6fe16df.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20090620050738/http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2006/None/20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090620050738/http://www.americ... At this time, Chinese political structure was _thoroughly_ infiltrated by CIA assets. There's also orthogonal indicators like amount of immuno-suppressant drugs in Chinese market cannot support a vast shadow organ harvesting system like FLG claims. There's a reason no credible institutions without FLG sponsorship have ever endorsed these findings. Including Mike Pompeo, at the urging for US lawmakers no less, who got drunk on FLG/epochtime coolaid. There's a special tier of ridiculous claims when even Pompeo can't spin it against China. FLG organ harvesting / vivisection has always been atrocity porn for useful idiots. It shouldn't be surprising these narratives are finally gaining traction during a period where media landscape is generating loads of them, when epochetimes is the #1 news paper on the appstore. I say this as someone with several FLG family members who was prosecuted in China, they are delusional cultists. Everything is peaceful and good intensions until they convince themselves not to seek medical advice and dies from completely preventable illnesses.