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>Most people are just as smart as you are. These people don't believe in objective reality (Biden won the election and there was no meaningful voter or electio

>Most people are just as smart as you are. These people don't believe in objective reality (Biden won the election and there was no meaningful voter or election fraud) and I'm having trouble thinking of a definition of "idiot" where something like that doesn't qualify.

chrisseaton 6y ago
> These people don't believe in objective reality Again... maybe they don't care instead of they don't believe? They may tell you they don't believe but what's not necessarily what they really think. 'They're just an idiot' is lazy analysis and dangerous. Very few people are idiots. Most people are lucid. It's dangerous because you're giving yourself a reason to be less cautious (how dangerous can they be - they're idiots, right?) rather than thinking these people aren't playing by the rules I'm playing by, what should I do about that? Whenever you think someone’s an idiot stop and think if it’s their modus operandi to make you think that.
- still_grokking 6y ago
  Being dangerous and being an idiot are completely orthogonal. > Very few people are idiots. Most people are lucid. I would question this. The average IQ is by definition 100. But that's not much at all! And there are 50% even below this line. If one has a look at for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States it get's even more worrisome. A large part of the US population is actually illiterate. In other parts of the world it looks even worse! We as a species would have solved most of our issues thousands of years ago if the average dude out there wouldn't be so incredibly dumb. And if you think about it a little bit, and judge form "normal" behavior around you, it's frightening how stupid people are actually. (Just put on the TV for a quick recap). If you're here on this site chances are high that you're smarter than the average. Looking form this position it may be hard to acknowledge all that stupidity around you because "No, they can't be such dumb, nobody can be such dumb". But in fact they are even dumber than you could imagine...
- minikites 6y ago
  >Whenever you think someone’s an idiot stop and think if it’s their modus operandi to make you think that. These people aren't fifth dimensional chess masters. They're angry, and much of their anger is based on legitimate economic grievances. Instead of actually addressing that though, they fall back on the much easier conclusion that people with dark skin are to blame. The media plays a part in all this, but individuals need to take responsibility and these particular individuals never will. They don't trust anyone who seems "intellectual", so there's literally nothing I could say that would get through to them. Calling them idiots and moving on has the same end result for the target, but will convince a bystander more readily. If instead I engage with them in a debate, that automatically validates their (frankly insane) point of view, which confuses bystanders into thinking that maybe there is something to this "election fraud" nonsense. Deep down most of these folks are just terrible people who need to feel superior to others. Trump and the rest of the Republican party give that to them. They don’t want economic security, they want superiority over others. Until they change from within, they're going to continue to be "idiots". In conclusion, why is it always "the left" that has to do the actual hard work in situations like these?
user3939382 6y ago
Every major institution in our society is plagued with corruption: municipal, state, and federal politics, corporate media, private industry, peer-reviewed science, religion, you name it. We know that, and yet when one of these corrupt institutions produces an answer beneficial to our tribal beliefs suddenly we appeal to its authority and integrity.
anonymouse008 6y ago
[...] Misunderstood comment
- minikites 6y ago
  You don't need a fixed address to vote.
  - anonymouse008 6y ago
    > You don't need a fixed address to vote. [...] also misunderstood
akira2501 6y ago
> where something like that doesn't qualify. Desperate people mislead by skilled con-artists. You can focus on the fact they got conned, and judge them harshly for it; or, you can focus on the fact that they're that desperate in the first place. I think we only stand a chance at solving the latter problem, so sorting the "idiots" from the enlightened doesn't seem like a meaningful activity.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  One of the things that surprised me is many of these people aren't in a desperate situation. One of them even flew in on a private jet.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Many if not most of them are not in precarious situations or at the bottom of society. Like the retired USAF colonel. They got conned, but only because they really wanted to believe in the kind of supremacy that Trump radiates.
JamesBarney 6y ago
They 100% do believe in objective reality. But they're being lied to by everyone they trust. Look at the number of nurses refusing the vaccine. There aren't the only people having trouble discerning truth from fiction. Recording yourself committing sedition is pretty dumb though...
- UI_at_80x24 6y ago
  There are a lot of comments and replies to my statement but you are the only one I've seen that has understood exactly what I was thinking about when I made the comment. Don't record yourself breaking the law. It doesn't matter which side of history you end-up on. It doesn't matter if in 10, 50, or 400 years, history decides that you were right. Right now, the authorities will find you guilty.
  - angry_octet 6y ago
    Peaceful protests often involve visibly breaking the law. Rosa Parks even did it without cameras! Gandhi, MLK, suffragettes, conscientious objectors, Thoreau etc. There is a long history of police and intelligence services surveilling and infiltrating peaceful protest movements. Authorities of the day definitely will imprison people. The big difference is that the QAnon/Trump/etc crazies are planning violent criminal action. Those people end up grouped with IRA/UVF, Nazis, ISIS, Hezbollah, mafiosos etc.

chrisseaton 6y ago

> These people don't believe in objective reality Again... maybe they don't care instead of they don't believe? They may tell you they don't believe but what's not necessarily what they really think. 'They're just an idiot' is lazy analysis and dangerous. Very few people are idiots. Most people are lucid. It's dangerous because you're giving yourself a reason to be less cautious (how dangerous can they be - they're idiots, right?) rather than thinking these people aren't playing by the rules I'm playing by, what should I do about that? Whenever you think someone’s an idiot stop and think if it’s their modus operandi to make you think that.

still_grokking 6y ago
Being dangerous and being an idiot are completely orthogonal. > Very few people are idiots. Most people are lucid. I would question this. The average IQ is by definition 100. But that's not much at all! And there are 50% even below this line. If one has a look at for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States it get's even more worrisome. A large part of the US population is actually illiterate. In other parts of the world it looks even worse! We as a species would have solved most of our issues thousands of years ago if the average dude out there wouldn't be so incredibly dumb. And if you think about it a little bit, and judge form "normal" behavior around you, it's frightening how stupid people are actually. (Just put on the TV for a quick recap). If you're here on this site chances are high that you're smarter than the average. Looking form this position it may be hard to acknowledge all that stupidity around you because "No, they can't be such dumb, nobody can be such dumb". But in fact they are even dumber than you could imagine...
minikites 6y ago
>Whenever you think someone’s an idiot stop and think if it’s their modus operandi to make you think that. These people aren't fifth dimensional chess masters. They're angry, and much of their anger is based on legitimate economic grievances. Instead of actually addressing that though, they fall back on the much easier conclusion that people with dark skin are to blame. The media plays a part in all this, but individuals need to take responsibility and these particular individuals never will. They don't trust anyone who seems "intellectual", so there's literally nothing I could say that would get through to them. Calling them idiots and moving on has the same end result for the target, but will convince a bystander more readily. If instead I engage with them in a debate, that automatically validates their (frankly insane) point of view, which confuses bystanders into thinking that maybe there is something to this "election fraud" nonsense. Deep down most of these folks are just terrible people who need to feel superior to others. Trump and the rest of the Republican party give that to them. They don’t want economic security, they want superiority over others. Until they change from within, they're going to continue to be "idiots". In conclusion, why is it always "the left" that has to do the actual hard work in situations like these?

user3939382 6y ago

Every major institution in our society is plagued with corruption: municipal, state, and federal politics, corporate media, private industry, peer-reviewed science, religion, you name it. We know that, and yet when one of these corrupt institutions produces an answer beneficial to our tribal beliefs suddenly we appeal to its authority and integrity.

anonymouse008 6y ago

[...] Misunderstood comment

minikites 6y ago
You don't need a fixed address to vote.
- anonymouse008 6y ago
  > You don't need a fixed address to vote. [...] also misunderstood

akira2501 6y ago

> where something like that doesn't qualify. Desperate people mislead by skilled con-artists. You can focus on the fact they got conned, and judge them harshly for it; or, you can focus on the fact that they're that desperate in the first place. I think we only stand a chance at solving the latter problem, so sorting the "idiots" from the enlightened doesn't seem like a meaningful activity.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
One of the things that surprised me is many of these people aren't in a desperate situation. One of them even flew in on a private jet.
pjc50 6y ago
Many if not most of them are not in precarious situations or at the bottom of society. Like the retired USAF colonel. They got conned, but only because they really wanted to believe in the kind of supremacy that Trump radiates.

JamesBarney 6y ago

They 100% do believe in objective reality. But they're being lied to by everyone they trust. Look at the number of nurses refusing the vaccine. There aren't the only people having trouble discerning truth from fiction. Recording yourself committing sedition is pretty dumb though...

UI_at_80x24 6y ago
There are a lot of comments and replies to my statement but you are the only one I've seen that has understood exactly what I was thinking about when I made the comment. Don't record yourself breaking the law. It doesn't matter which side of history you end-up on. It doesn't matter if in 10, 50, or 400 years, history decides that you were right. Right now, the authorities will find you guilty.
- angry_octet 6y ago
  Peaceful protests often involve visibly breaking the law. Rosa Parks even did it without cameras! Gandhi, MLK, suffragettes, conscientious objectors, Thoreau etc. There is a long history of police and intelligence services surveilling and infiltrating peaceful protest movements. Authorities of the day definitely will imprison people. The big difference is that the QAnon/Trump/etc crazies are planning violent criminal action. Those people end up grouped with IRA/UVF, Nazis, ISIS, Hezbollah, mafiosos etc.