7 ms·

This is one great thing about the software engineering profession, there's really no excuse for not being "employed". Even if you are laid off from your job and

by thematt 15y ago

This is one great thing about the software engineering profession, there's really no excuse for not being "employed". Even if you are laid off from your job and can't find work...you can always start a side company or work on a project. Those look like perfectly valid employment from a resume perspective. I can't imagine a scenario in which there will ever be a gap like that in my resume.

Luyt 15y ago
I have a one-year gap in my resumé—I took no new freelance assignments in that year, and had three vacations abroad, two in the summer and one in the winter, and studied semiconductors and new software technologies for fun—and I decided to write it down as a 'sabbatical year'.
- jamesbressi 15y ago
  and what is/was the response to the 'sabbatical year' on your résumé?
  - georgieporgie 15y ago
    FWIW, I've been "out of work" for ~2.5 years, traveled SE Asia, lived in Japan for six months, and bicycled from Canada to Mexico. When a Google recruiter talked to me, he seemed really impressed, and not put off in the least.
    - shorttime 15y ago
      You get it, as long as you have a legitimate story and reason people who you would actually want to work for wouldn't care or even be envious. However, if you just sat around the house, went out drinking with your buddies all the time, and lived off savings - that could look bad to most people (not all, but most).
      - georgieporgie 15y ago
        That's basically exactly what I did for the six months in Japan. It's amazing how people's impressions are changed by one small detail. :-)
    - jimbokun 15y ago
      "When a Google recruiter talked to me, he seemed really impressed, and not put off in the least." Did they hire you?
      - georgieporgie 15y ago
        No. I told them I wasn't ready to make the sort of long-term commitment I would want at Google.
  - Luyt 15y ago
    "and what is/was the response to the 'sabbatical year' on your résumé?" I'm not sure. I don't actively mail around my résumé, since I'm employed at the moment and not looking for work. Sometimes recruiters email me, but they have never mentioned the sabbatical. Probably people just ignore it. I haven't updated the details on my résumé since 2004, shame on me ;-)
  - akronim 15y ago
    Had a year off traveling. First lot of interviews after that, everyone was very suspicious - e.g. wondering if the plan was to work for a few months then take off again. Fast forward two years when interviewing again everyone thought it was a "fantastic life experience". Basically employers saw it as a risk first time around, second time around it was proven that my intentions were good. YMMV.
    - Luyt 15y ago
      Excellent idea. I'll squeeze in a second 'sabbatical' with some years between the two.
droz 15y ago
Oh what bullshit. Best excuse for not being employed is that you don't need to be. If you've got the cash to enjoy a year or two off to go on a vacation, go back to school or whatever, then you ought to take it.
- thematt 15y ago
  Why? As an employer, I'm certainly going to give more preference to the kid that was hacking away at his side project trying to build something exciting than I am to the guy who was on vacation for the last two years.
  - yeahsure 15y ago
    Personally, I believe that kid will be eager to go on vacation a few months down the line, when he has money in his pocket. If the guy who went on vacation for two years wants to get back on the game, most likely won't experience any burn out. Of course it all depends on the context, but nothing is so simple in this situation, I guess.
  - Produce 15y ago
    Economic sanctions against people who don't want their life to be work? The logic actually makes some twisted sense - "Oh, you don't want to work all the time? Well you're not getting any work at all then." Personally, I'd give preference to whoever does a better job because how a person got to that stage is none of my business. Either way, that attitude is borderline discrimination.
    - orijing 15y ago
      > Personally, I'd give preference to whoever does a better job because how a person got to that stage is none of my business The problem is, you do not know who will do a better job. The parent post is implying that the past is a signal for the future.
      - Meai 15y ago
georgieporgie 15y ago
or work on a project. Those look like perfectly valid employment from a resume perspective. I have a hard time believing that a 'project' would look anything like employment, and I think your ruse would fall apart under interview scrutiny. Mind you, the best thing you can do when you're cut is to start a business. B.S. is better than a blank stare, but not by much.
- thematt 15y ago
  I wasn't intending for it to be a ruse. Rather if someone had enough money to float for a year and chose to dedicate their time to an open source project, that would be some great experience.
  - georgieporgie 15y ago
    You stated that a project would look like perfectly valid employment experience. IMO that's a ruse. I'm not saying that people shouldn't get involved in projects, just that they shouldn't attempt to make a project look like employment if it isn't.
    - skidooer 15y ago
      > just that they shouldn't attempt to make a project look like employment if it isn't. What is the difference? I am having a little trouble drawing the distinction. - If a self-funded project is not employment, does it become employment when someone else funds it? - If you self fund a project and you are able to sell the result of your project, does that make the work leading up to the sale employment? What if you are never able to make a sale? - Do you have to be just another cog in the wheel of a big business to be considered employed? - Why is searching for a job not the same as searching for new customers (i.e. sales, a real profession)? As far as I can tell, they are all exactly the same. Where does the line get drawn?
      - georgieporgie 15y ago
        What is the difference? I am having a little trouble drawing the distinction. Employment means you are employed. If you start a company, you are an employee of said company ("self-employed" is a misnomer if you have a corporation). "A project," implies that there is not a company, otherwise you would say that you started a company. "A project," does not constitute employment. You can talk about edge cases of pet projects making sales, but it doesn't change the fact that claiming a project as employment experience is unlikely to get you very far. Again, I am not saying that people should not work on projects. Just don't confuse projects with employment.
tibbon 15y ago
Or just take the time to beef up your Github contributions. I'd rather see someone with great contributions to the FOSS community than continuous employment at random places.
- azakai 15y ago
  > Or just take the time to beef up your Github contributions. I'd rather see someone with great contributions to the FOSS community than continuous employment at random places. Yes, exactly. The software industry is great in that, even if you can't find a job right now, you can do actual real-world work. Contributions to significant open source projects is a huge plus for getting hired where I work, and I don't think it's just here. In fact, you can sometimes build your skills faster doing open source stuff than when employed - since you can more easily pick what to learn and what to do. But in other industries, it is really very sad - if you can't get a job, you often can't do anything at all.

by thematt 15y ago

Luyt 15y ago

I have a one-year gap in my resumé—I took no new freelance assignments in that year, and had three vacations abroad, two in the summer and one in the winter, and studied semiconductors and new software technologies for fun—and I decided to write it down as a 'sabbatical year'.

jamesbressi 15y ago
and what is/was the response to the 'sabbatical year' on your résumé?
- georgieporgie 15y ago
  FWIW, I've been "out of work" for ~2.5 years, traveled SE Asia, lived in Japan for six months, and bicycled from Canada to Mexico. When a Google recruiter talked to me, he seemed really impressed, and not put off in the least.
  - shorttime 15y ago
    You get it, as long as you have a legitimate story and reason people who you would actually want to work for wouldn't care or even be envious. However, if you just sat around the house, went out drinking with your buddies all the time, and lived off savings - that could look bad to most people (not all, but most).
    - georgieporgie 15y ago
      That's basically exactly what I did for the six months in Japan. It's amazing how people's impressions are changed by one small detail. :-)
  - jimbokun 15y ago
    "When a Google recruiter talked to me, he seemed really impressed, and not put off in the least." Did they hire you?
    - georgieporgie 15y ago
      No. I told them I wasn't ready to make the sort of long-term commitment I would want at Google.
- Luyt 15y ago
  "and what is/was the response to the 'sabbatical year' on your résumé?" I'm not sure. I don't actively mail around my résumé, since I'm employed at the moment and not looking for work. Sometimes recruiters email me, but they have never mentioned the sabbatical. Probably people just ignore it. I haven't updated the details on my résumé since 2004, shame on me ;-)
- akronim 15y ago
  Had a year off traveling. First lot of interviews after that, everyone was very suspicious - e.g. wondering if the plan was to work for a few months then take off again. Fast forward two years when interviewing again everyone thought it was a "fantastic life experience". Basically employers saw it as a risk first time around, second time around it was proven that my intentions were good. YMMV.
  - Luyt 15y ago
    Excellent idea. I'll squeeze in a second 'sabbatical' with some years between the two.

droz 15y ago

Oh what bullshit. Best excuse for not being employed is that you don't need to be. If you've got the cash to enjoy a year or two off to go on a vacation, go back to school or whatever, then you ought to take it.

thematt 15y ago
Why? As an employer, I'm certainly going to give more preference to the kid that was hacking away at his side project trying to build something exciting than I am to the guy who was on vacation for the last two years.
- yeahsure 15y ago
  Personally, I believe that kid will be eager to go on vacation a few months down the line, when he has money in his pocket. If the guy who went on vacation for two years wants to get back on the game, most likely won't experience any burn out. Of course it all depends on the context, but nothing is so simple in this situation, I guess.
- Produce 15y ago
  Economic sanctions against people who don't want their life to be work? The logic actually makes some twisted sense - "Oh, you don't want to work all the time? Well you're not getting any work at all then." Personally, I'd give preference to whoever does a better job because how a person got to that stage is none of my business. Either way, that attitude is borderline discrimination.
  - orijing 15y ago
    > Personally, I'd give preference to whoever does a better job because how a person got to that stage is none of my business The problem is, you do not know who will do a better job. The parent post is implying that the past is a signal for the future.
    - Meai 15y ago

georgieporgie 15y ago

or work on a project. Those look like perfectly valid employment from a resume perspective. I have a hard time believing that a 'project' would look anything like employment, and I think your ruse would fall apart under interview scrutiny. Mind you, the best thing you can do when you're cut is to start a business. B.S. is better than a blank stare, but not by much.

thematt 15y ago
I wasn't intending for it to be a ruse. Rather if someone had enough money to float for a year and chose to dedicate their time to an open source project, that would be some great experience.
- georgieporgie 15y ago
  You stated that a project would look like perfectly valid employment experience. IMO that's a ruse. I'm not saying that people shouldn't get involved in projects, just that they shouldn't attempt to make a project look like employment if it isn't.
  - skidooer 15y ago
    > just that they shouldn't attempt to make a project look like employment if it isn't. What is the difference? I am having a little trouble drawing the distinction. - If a self-funded project is not employment, does it become employment when someone else funds it? - If you self fund a project and you are able to sell the result of your project, does that make the work leading up to the sale employment? What if you are never able to make a sale? - Do you have to be just another cog in the wheel of a big business to be considered employed? - Why is searching for a job not the same as searching for new customers (i.e. sales, a real profession)? As far as I can tell, they are all exactly the same. Where does the line get drawn?
    - georgieporgie 15y ago
      What is the difference? I am having a little trouble drawing the distinction. Employment means you are employed. If you start a company, you are an employee of said company ("self-employed" is a misnomer if you have a corporation). "A project," implies that there is not a company, otherwise you would say that you started a company. "A project," does not constitute employment. You can talk about edge cases of pet projects making sales, but it doesn't change the fact that claiming a project as employment experience is unlikely to get you very far. Again, I am not saying that people should not work on projects. Just don't confuse projects with employment.

tibbon 15y ago

Or just take the time to beef up your Github contributions. I'd rather see someone with great contributions to the FOSS community than continuous employment at random places.

azakai 15y ago
> Or just take the time to beef up your Github contributions. I'd rather see someone with great contributions to the FOSS community than continuous employment at random places. Yes, exactly. The software industry is great in that, even if you can't find a job right now, you can do actual real-world work. Contributions to significant open source projects is a huge plus for getting hired where I work, and I don't think it's just here. In fact, you can sometimes build your skills faster doing open source stuff than when employed - since you can more easily pick what to learn and what to do. But in other industries, it is really very sad - if you can't get a job, you often can't do anything at all.