5 ms·

You do realize that everyone has their own opinion on what is good and bad right? I cant believe how naive this statement is.

klmadfejno 6y ago
Golly it's just so hard to know who to trust. The crowds protesting racial injustice and police brutality? Or the literal, self identifying nazis, white supremacists, and cultish conspiracy theorists trying to kill political leaders. Alas our moral non cognizance in a post modern perspective. edit: to the below, really, no. There's no hyperbole. If your group features nazis, and your group is not making every effort to expel associations with said nazis, your group is, at best, nazi adjacent. Nazis are the hyperbolic euphemism of peak historical immorality. It is preposterous that anyone feels they're making a good faith argument throwing whatabout comparisons when the starting point is nazis.
- trident5000 6y ago
  Another issue is how any individual frames either side and bases good and bad off of that, often using hyperbole, inaccuracies, wide brushes of their opposing views. Where are all these “nazis” you say that word a lot. “My group” I didnt know I was in a group. You certainly seem to assume a lot and form knee jerk conclusions. Actually proving my point quite well.
  - multjoy 6y ago
    The ‘Camp Auschwitz’ hoody and the “6MWE” (6 million Jews wasn’t enough) not enough of a signpost for you?
    - trident5000 6y ago
      Continuing to prove my point. "wide brushes of their opposing views" Thinking everyone who disagrees with you is a nazi because you saw a a guy with a t-shirt is something stupid people do.
      - multjoy 6y ago
        Someone who thinks that the holocaust didn’t go far enough is, literally, a nazi. The fact that this is something you’re in a state of active denial about is a ‘you’ problem, not a ‘me’ problem.
        trident5000 6y ago
        Talking about some remote person or group of people and pretending it represents a nonexistent large population is insanity. There have always been fringe groups on both sides. The issue at hand is you have no perspective after being gaslit and think everyone you disagree with is a "nazi".
        multjoy 6y ago
        No, I don’t believe everyone who disagrees with me is a nazi. However, if I see a group of people displaying actual nazi sentiments then I will assume that all the group are either actual nazis or cool with being associated with nazis. Remember, the OG antifa were on the beaches at Normandy.
        trident5000 6y ago
        Who, that little group or 70 million Americans? What are we talking about here.
        gamblor956 6y ago
        We are talking about the little group of seditionists, trying so desperately hard to convince people that a larger group agrees with their goals or their tactics. 70 million people cast a vote based on political affiliations. And their side lost, and they accepted that. The commonality with the seditionists ends there.
        pbourke 6y ago
        > 70 million people cast a vote based on political affiliations. And their side lost, and they accepted that. Did they, now? "A CNN poll, released on Sunday and conducted by SSRS between January 9 and 14, shows that 75 percent of Republicans do not think that Biden won the election legitimately, compared to 1 percent of Democrats and 36 percent of independents."[0] [0] https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-joe-biden-won-election-legitimately-poll-1562343 https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-joe-biden-won-election-...
  - klmadfejno 6y ago
    > Where are all these “nazis” you say that word a lot. How about this guy, self identifying neo nazi, who live streamed himself going into the capitol? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/neo-nazi-conspiracy-baked-alaska-arrest-capitol-b1788372.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... I use "your" in the general sense. I don't know who you are. But here's the thing, you can be a conservative and not align with the opinions of nazis. But if you look at the nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups attacking the capitol; and say "I think they're working for a good cause", I'm going to make some assumptions. If you stop and find yourself arguing similar talking points as nazi groups... I don't know what you expect to happen. This isn't hyperbole. These are literal nazi groups. We are so far removed from what should be a societally tolerable difference of opinion. It's not "conservatism" at play here.
- matwood 6y ago
  > and your group is not making every effort to expel associations with said nazis This was the most bothersome part to me. Trump talked about wanting to punch protestors, but tip-toed around actual Nazi's supporting him and coming to events. He would eventually denounce violence or hate after being prodded, but never seemed to be able to state plainly if someone is a Nazi, then GTFO. Personally, if I'm in a group and literal Nazi's are also allowed in the group, that's not a group I'm going to remain a part of.
  - seneca 6y ago
    > never seemed to be able to state plainly if someone is a Nazi, then GTFO. > Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin... we must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence... Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-... Donald Trump has many qualities worth criticizing. You should do some basic research to make sure you're repeating real ones and not just nonsense from an echo chamber.
    - matwood 6y ago
      I’ve read that, yet he kept on walking the line. His initial statements always seemed to need clarification later. As I said, he always managed to denounce later after prodding. From the summer: https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/06/28/trump-tweets-video-with-white-power-chant-then-deletes-it/ https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/06/28/trump-tweets-video-with... And this: https://www.npr.org/2020/06/18/880377872/facebook-removes-trump-political-ads-with-nazi-symbol-campaign-calls-it-an-emoji https://www.npr.org/2020/06/18/880377872/facebook-removes-tr... And then stuff like this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-condemn-white-supremacists/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-condemn-white-suprem... When asked to condemn “white supremacists and right-wing militia groups,” Trump verbally articulated a willingness to do so (“Sure, I’m willing to do that”), but also prevaricated, delayed, and bristled at the request, for example asking “Who do you want me to condemn?” when the terms of the request had already been made clear, and saying “Give me a name, go ahead.” He also swiftly shifted focus from white supremacists (the subject of the moderator’s question to him) to a condemnation of “the left wing.” While it can be argued that Trump did not unequivocally refuse to condemn white supremacists, he undoubtedly demonstrated a reluctance to do so, one that will be very worrying to many voters. When Trump ultimately got around to issuing his version of the condemnation requested by Wallace and Biden, it was shrouded in ambiguity (“Proud Boys? Stand back and stand by”) and followed by another rapid shift in focus to “antifa and the Left.” Whatever Trump did say, he did not condemn white supremacists. Unfortunately, because of the pandemic I’ve probably watched, read, and listened to more Trump than his supporters. The only echo chamber I’m in is his own material. His hesitancy around the white supremacist topic has always been alarming.
root_axis 6y ago
Yes, that doesn't mean we have to respect all opinions equally. The lies about election fraud should not be tolerated even if some people are foolish enough to entertain them.

klmadfejno 6y ago

Golly it's just so hard to know who to trust. The crowds protesting racial injustice and police brutality? Or the literal, self identifying nazis, white supremacists, and cultish conspiracy theorists trying to kill political leaders. Alas our moral non cognizance in a post modern perspective. edit: to the below, really, no. There's no hyperbole. If your group features nazis, and your group is not making every effort to expel associations with said nazis, your group is, at best, nazi adjacent. Nazis are the hyperbolic euphemism of peak historical immorality. It is preposterous that anyone feels they're making a good faith argument throwing whatabout comparisons when the starting point is nazis.

trident5000 6y ago
Another issue is how any individual frames either side and bases good and bad off of that, often using hyperbole, inaccuracies, wide brushes of their opposing views. Where are all these “nazis” you say that word a lot. “My group” I didnt know I was in a group. You certainly seem to assume a lot and form knee jerk conclusions. Actually proving my point quite well.
- multjoy 6y ago
  The ‘Camp Auschwitz’ hoody and the “6MWE” (6 million Jews wasn’t enough) not enough of a signpost for you?
  - trident5000 6y ago
    Continuing to prove my point. "wide brushes of their opposing views" Thinking everyone who disagrees with you is a nazi because you saw a a guy with a t-shirt is something stupid people do.
    - multjoy 6y ago
      Someone who thinks that the holocaust didn’t go far enough is, literally, a nazi. The fact that this is something you’re in a state of active denial about is a ‘you’ problem, not a ‘me’ problem.
      - trident5000 6y ago
        Talking about some remote person or group of people and pretending it represents a nonexistent large population is insanity. There have always been fringe groups on both sides. The issue at hand is you have no perspective after being gaslit and think everyone you disagree with is a "nazi".
        multjoy 6y ago
        No, I don’t believe everyone who disagrees with me is a nazi. However, if I see a group of people displaying actual nazi sentiments then I will assume that all the group are either actual nazis or cool with being associated with nazis. Remember, the OG antifa were on the beaches at Normandy.
        trident5000 6y ago
        Who, that little group or 70 million Americans? What are we talking about here.
        gamblor956 6y ago
        We are talking about the little group of seditionists, trying so desperately hard to convince people that a larger group agrees with their goals or their tactics. 70 million people cast a vote based on political affiliations. And their side lost, and they accepted that. The commonality with the seditionists ends there.
        pbourke 6y ago
        > 70 million people cast a vote based on political affiliations. And their side lost, and they accepted that. Did they, now? "A CNN poll, released on Sunday and conducted by SSRS between January 9 and 14, shows that 75 percent of Republicans do not think that Biden won the election legitimately, compared to 1 percent of Democrats and 36 percent of independents."[0] [0] https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-joe-biden-won-election-legitimately-poll-1562343 https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-joe-biden-won-election-...
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  > Where are all these “nazis” you say that word a lot. How about this guy, self identifying neo nazi, who live streamed himself going into the capitol? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/neo-nazi-conspiracy-baked-alaska-arrest-capitol-b1788372.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... I use "your" in the general sense. I don't know who you are. But here's the thing, you can be a conservative and not align with the opinions of nazis. But if you look at the nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups attacking the capitol; and say "I think they're working for a good cause", I'm going to make some assumptions. If you stop and find yourself arguing similar talking points as nazi groups... I don't know what you expect to happen. This isn't hyperbole. These are literal nazi groups. We are so far removed from what should be a societally tolerable difference of opinion. It's not "conservatism" at play here.
matwood 6y ago
> and your group is not making every effort to expel associations with said nazis This was the most bothersome part to me. Trump talked about wanting to punch protestors, but tip-toed around actual Nazi's supporting him and coming to events. He would eventually denounce violence or hate after being prodded, but never seemed to be able to state plainly if someone is a Nazi, then GTFO. Personally, if I'm in a group and literal Nazi's are also allowed in the group, that's not a group I'm going to remain a part of.
- seneca 6y ago
  > never seemed to be able to state plainly if someone is a Nazi, then GTFO. > Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America. And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin... we must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence... Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-... Donald Trump has many qualities worth criticizing. You should do some basic research to make sure you're repeating real ones and not just nonsense from an echo chamber.
  - matwood 6y ago
    I’ve read that, yet he kept on walking the line. His initial statements always seemed to need clarification later. As I said, he always managed to denounce later after prodding. From the summer: https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/06/28/trump-tweets-video-with-white-power-chant-then-deletes-it/ https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/06/28/trump-tweets-video-with... And this: https://www.npr.org/2020/06/18/880377872/facebook-removes-trump-political-ads-with-nazi-symbol-campaign-calls-it-an-emoji https://www.npr.org/2020/06/18/880377872/facebook-removes-tr... And then stuff like this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-condemn-white-supremacists/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-condemn-white-suprem... When asked to condemn “white supremacists and right-wing militia groups,” Trump verbally articulated a willingness to do so (“Sure, I’m willing to do that”), but also prevaricated, delayed, and bristled at the request, for example asking “Who do you want me to condemn?” when the terms of the request had already been made clear, and saying “Give me a name, go ahead.” He also swiftly shifted focus from white supremacists (the subject of the moderator’s question to him) to a condemnation of “the left wing.” While it can be argued that Trump did not unequivocally refuse to condemn white supremacists, he undoubtedly demonstrated a reluctance to do so, one that will be very worrying to many voters. When Trump ultimately got around to issuing his version of the condemnation requested by Wallace and Biden, it was shrouded in ambiguity (“Proud Boys? Stand back and stand by”) and followed by another rapid shift in focus to “antifa and the Left.” Whatever Trump did say, he did not condemn white supremacists. Unfortunately, because of the pandemic I’ve probably watched, read, and listened to more Trump than his supporters. The only echo chamber I’m in is his own material. His hesitancy around the white supremacist topic has always been alarming.

root_axis 6y ago

Yes, that doesn't mean we have to respect all opinions equally. The lies about election fraud should not be tolerated even if some people are foolish enough to entertain them.