6 ms·

Tesla probably has the best solution to this so far; they have cameras around the car that record movement and send it to the cloud. A tracking system would wor

Tesla probably has the best solution to this so far; they have cameras around the car that record movement and send it to the cloud. A tracking system would work only until thieves figure out how to disable it; at which point it just becomes another part to sell. The Tesla solution is nice because it live streams the carjacking to the owner, enabling them to pick out details about the thief that could be useful to arresting them. Of course, Teslas also have GPS tracking on top of this.

dont__panic 6y ago
Wait, so parked Teslas always record videos of me when I walk by? That does not sound legal in quite a few places.
- aronpye 6y ago
  You’re in a public place, have no reasonable expectation to privacy, and the recording is not intrusive, so perfectly legal.
  - lights0123 6y ago
    "quite a few places" can mean "not the US".
  - harperlee 6y ago
    At least in Spain* it does not work like that, there are very stringent limitations on what you can record on the street, e.g. through dashcams or tesla sentinel mode: https://www.aepd.es/sites/default/files/2019-09/informe-juridico-rgpd-camaras-on-board.pdf https://www.aepd.es/sites/default/files/2019-09/informe-juri... For example, you can't use dashcam recordings of an accident in trial. * And I don't want to spend a bunch of time reading law but quite sure this is very tied in with GDPR, so I'd say that most probably in all Europe everything you record on the street is still subject to the privacy rights of whomever you record.
    - andai 6y ago
      > you can't use dashcam recordings of an accident in trial. Doesn't this entirely defeat the purpose of having a dashcam?
      - dharmab 6y ago
        No, because an insurance claim is usually not a trial.
      - sml156 6y ago
        For most people yes, If your willing to take matters into your own hands no.
    - akadruid1 6y ago
      I don't think it's always part how GDPR is implemented in national laws. I believe it's admissable in court here in the UK, certainly my dashcam footage of a crash caused by a drink driver in 2019 was collected as evidence by police officers at the scene.
      - harperlee 6y ago
        In Europe there are directives and regulations, and the former get transposed into local law, whereas regulations apply directly. The R in GDPR comes from regulation :)
    - TwoBit 6y ago
      > you can't use dashcam recordings of an accident in trial. What's the rationale to that? Concern over manipulated videos? That would seem dumb if the video files are transferred at the accident (which happens in USA).
      - harperlee 6y ago
        You can’t record people without their consent, I believe. No idea about the limitations of this for e.g. security cameras! But I’m sure for dashcams.
  - xboxnolifes 6y ago
    many places cars are stationary are not public places, and still visible to pedestrians.
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dos8fRzBH24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dos8fRzBH24
- xeromal 6y ago
  It's not legal in Germany and probably a few other countries but its perfectly legal here in the US.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    So are the cameras in Teslas in Germany disabled?
    - xeromal 6y ago
      It might be the ones sold in germany. You may be able to bring one in with it enabled.
    - xeromal 6y ago
      https://www.dw.com/en/dashcams-in-germany-permissible-in-court-court-rules/a-43788494 https://www.dw.com/en/dashcams-in-germany-permissible-in-cou... Looks like it has been updated for a few years.
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  In the USA, as long as you're not recording audio and it's not in a place where people have a reasonable expectation of privacy, clandestine video surveillance is A-OK.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I don’t know why cars don’t come with built in dash cams yet. Seems like there is huge demand for it.
    - fletchowns 6y ago
      I think it's only a matter of time before all new cars come with front and rear facing cameras. I think the next step after that would be some sort of reporting system. Seems kinda crazy I can click a button to report somebody cheating in a video game but I can't press a button in my car to report soembody for extremely unsafe driving.
    - cortesoft 6y ago
      Teslas do. Just plug in a USB drive and it starts recording.
      - filoeleven 6y ago
        That’s a good move. I have a Subaru with the EyeSight system for lane detection, adaptive cruise control, etc. It’s annoying that the cameras are RIGHT THERE and always on, and they even store a 22-second history that can be accessed by police or insurance in case of a crash, but I, as the vehicle owner with a vested interest in access to the feed, have no way of tapping into it and storing it for myself.
        mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
        How do police or insurance access it?
        6y ago
moistbar 6y ago
You can't stream video from the car to the app, not yet at least. It's rumored to be coming in a future update, but it's not here yet.
bdowling 6y ago
There is at least one Youtube channel, Wham Bam Teslacam [0], dedicated to publishing Tesla camera recordings of thieves, vandals, and other incidents. [0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbMoDtZ6Ani-eyHzCvxeVCw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbMoDtZ6Ani-eyHzCvxeVCw
overscore 6y ago
This implies that Tesla can view the vicinity and location of your car at any time. Is that true? That would completely destroy any desire to own one.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  This is one example of when it’s useful: https://www.reddit.com/r/SALEM/comments/l0nohv/mischievous_at_winco/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SALEM/comments/l0nohv/mischievous_a...
  - overscore 6y ago
    I don't think the security benefits - while considerable - would be enough to allow a car manufacturer to surveil everywhere I go.
- caf 6y ago
  For the video clips, you can control whether any are sent to Tesla under the data sharing options on the in-car menu system. Video is only recorded locally if Sentry mode is enabled (when parked) or Dashcam is enabled (when driving). Sentry mode prevents the car from going to sleep / opening the HV contactor, which costs a small amount of battery if it's enabled for long periods. The car's location is accessible through the app, so this is sent through Tesla's servers.
- ggreer 6y ago
  > This implies that Tesla can view the vicinity and location of your car at any time. Is that true? I don't think the cars have the bandwidth to stream it in realtime, but they do upload bits of camera and telemetry data to help train Tesla's self-driving software. The car has settings that let you opt out of this data sharing. Regarding location data: That's true for most cars sold today and it isn't particularly new. How else would cars have turn-by-turn directions? I think it was 2011 when GM began storing GPS data from cars with OnStar. Even if you avoided owning a car with GPS, there's still the issue of automatic license plate readers. These days, the only way to guarantee that your drive won't be tracked is to steal someone else's car. If you're like most people, you carry your phone with you. That means that Apple/Google knows where you are. Ditto for your phone company and probably quite a few other companies that have apps on your phone. And if you don't have a phone or a car, you probably walk past a bunch of cameras every day (including cameras on self-driving vehicles). These cameras will only get smarter and more numerous. Privacy is dead. Most people just don't know it yet.
pound 6y ago
I haven't heard that they send it to the cloud, do you have more details on it? And for even locally - you need to buy ssd and plug it in to start recording video from sentry/dashboard.

dont__panic 6y ago

Wait, so parked Teslas always record videos of me when I walk by? That does not sound legal in quite a few places.

aronpye 6y ago
You’re in a public place, have no reasonable expectation to privacy, and the recording is not intrusive, so perfectly legal.
- lights0123 6y ago
  "quite a few places" can mean "not the US".
- harperlee 6y ago
  At least in Spain* it does not work like that, there are very stringent limitations on what you can record on the street, e.g. through dashcams or tesla sentinel mode: https://www.aepd.es/sites/default/files/2019-09/informe-juridico-rgpd-camaras-on-board.pdf https://www.aepd.es/sites/default/files/2019-09/informe-juri... For example, you can't use dashcam recordings of an accident in trial. * And I don't want to spend a bunch of time reading law but quite sure this is very tied in with GDPR, so I'd say that most probably in all Europe everything you record on the street is still subject to the privacy rights of whomever you record.
  - andai 6y ago
    > you can't use dashcam recordings of an accident in trial. Doesn't this entirely defeat the purpose of having a dashcam?
    - dharmab 6y ago
      No, because an insurance claim is usually not a trial.
    - sml156 6y ago
      For most people yes, If your willing to take matters into your own hands no.
  - akadruid1 6y ago
    I don't think it's always part how GDPR is implemented in national laws. I believe it's admissable in court here in the UK, certainly my dashcam footage of a crash caused by a drink driver in 2019 was collected as evidence by police officers at the scene.
    - harperlee 6y ago
      In Europe there are directives and regulations, and the former get transposed into local law, whereas regulations apply directly. The R in GDPR comes from regulation :)
  - TwoBit 6y ago
    > you can't use dashcam recordings of an accident in trial. What's the rationale to that? Concern over manipulated videos? That would seem dumb if the video files are transferred at the accident (which happens in USA).
    - harperlee 6y ago
      You can’t record people without their consent, I believe. No idea about the limitations of this for e.g. security cameras! But I’m sure for dashcams.
- xboxnolifes 6y ago
  many places cars are stationary are not public places, and still visible to pedestrians.
x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dos8fRzBH24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dos8fRzBH24
xeromal 6y ago
It's not legal in Germany and probably a few other countries but its perfectly legal here in the US.
- sumedh 6y ago
  So are the cameras in Teslas in Germany disabled?
  - xeromal 6y ago
    It might be the ones sold in germany. You may be able to bring one in with it enabled.
  - xeromal 6y ago
    https://www.dw.com/en/dashcams-in-germany-permissible-in-court-court-rules/a-43788494 https://www.dw.com/en/dashcams-in-germany-permissible-in-cou... Looks like it has been updated for a few years.
mumblemumble 6y ago
In the USA, as long as you're not recording audio and it's not in a place where people have a reasonable expectation of privacy, clandestine video surveillance is A-OK.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I don’t know why cars don’t come with built in dash cams yet. Seems like there is huge demand for it.
  - fletchowns 6y ago
    I think it's only a matter of time before all new cars come with front and rear facing cameras. I think the next step after that would be some sort of reporting system. Seems kinda crazy I can click a button to report somebody cheating in a video game but I can't press a button in my car to report soembody for extremely unsafe driving.
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    Teslas do. Just plug in a USB drive and it starts recording.
    - filoeleven 6y ago
      That’s a good move. I have a Subaru with the EyeSight system for lane detection, adaptive cruise control, etc. It’s annoying that the cameras are RIGHT THERE and always on, and they even store a 22-second history that can be accessed by police or insurance in case of a crash, but I, as the vehicle owner with a vested interest in access to the feed, have no way of tapping into it and storing it for myself.
      - mandelbrotwurst 6y ago
        How do police or insurance access it?
        6y ago

moistbar 6y ago

You can't stream video from the car to the app, not yet at least. It's rumored to be coming in a future update, but it's not here yet.

bdowling 6y ago

There is at least one Youtube channel, Wham Bam Teslacam [0], dedicated to publishing Tesla camera recordings of thieves, vandals, and other incidents. [0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbMoDtZ6Ani-eyHzCvxeVCw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbMoDtZ6Ani-eyHzCvxeVCw

overscore 6y ago

This implies that Tesla can view the vicinity and location of your car at any time. Is that true? That would completely destroy any desire to own one.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
This is one example of when it’s useful: https://www.reddit.com/r/SALEM/comments/l0nohv/mischievous_at_winco/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SALEM/comments/l0nohv/mischievous_a...
- overscore 6y ago
  I don't think the security benefits - while considerable - would be enough to allow a car manufacturer to surveil everywhere I go.
caf 6y ago
For the video clips, you can control whether any are sent to Tesla under the data sharing options on the in-car menu system. Video is only recorded locally if Sentry mode is enabled (when parked) or Dashcam is enabled (when driving). Sentry mode prevents the car from going to sleep / opening the HV contactor, which costs a small amount of battery if it's enabled for long periods. The car's location is accessible through the app, so this is sent through Tesla's servers.
ggreer 6y ago
> This implies that Tesla can view the vicinity and location of your car at any time. Is that true? I don't think the cars have the bandwidth to stream it in realtime, but they do upload bits of camera and telemetry data to help train Tesla's self-driving software. The car has settings that let you opt out of this data sharing. Regarding location data: That's true for most cars sold today and it isn't particularly new. How else would cars have turn-by-turn directions? I think it was 2011 when GM began storing GPS data from cars with OnStar. Even if you avoided owning a car with GPS, there's still the issue of automatic license plate readers. These days, the only way to guarantee that your drive won't be tracked is to steal someone else's car. If you're like most people, you carry your phone with you. That means that Apple/Google knows where you are. Ditto for your phone company and probably quite a few other companies that have apps on your phone. And if you don't have a phone or a car, you probably walk past a bunch of cameras every day (including cameras on self-driving vehicles). These cameras will only get smarter and more numerous. Privacy is dead. Most people just don't know it yet.

pound 6y ago

I haven't heard that they send it to the cloud, do you have more details on it? And for even locally - you need to buy ssd and plug it in to start recording video from sentry/dashboard.