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>Is x a scam because I don't understand it/I'm priced out? Uh, no. Though fiat currency is definitely a scam.

by hd4 6y ago

imtringued 6y ago
Moderate CPI inflation is necessary for a productive economy. Fiat currency also has the nice property of being able to be used as money (payment for goods and services). So no, a well managed fiat currency can be extremely useful.
- octocop 6y ago
  I like the way you used moderate. There is a reason that you did, and I think that is one of the reasons that bitcoin is thriving.
  - jeltz 6y ago
    But we have moderate inflation in most countries so I do not see you point.
    - lifty 6y ago
      We do have moderate to low CPI inflation in western countries, but we also have high inequality and a young generation that doesn't have any assets. Now, if whether you call that inflation or not, the reality of the matter is that the cheap money situation we are in has led to this situation where we have rampant speculation in stocks, real-estate, crypto assets and any other form of limited supply assets. So I think Bitcoin and the crypto asset class, is here to stay, offering its own unique set of advantages and disadvantages.
      - gthaman 6y ago
        CPI is a cooked up government statistic, used in contracts and agreements (including social security) that unconditionally favors the governments position. For example it does not include energy or housing costs. They also add and remove items from the CPI index, to remove ones that inflate and add ones such as consumer electronics that deflate. Check out the chapwood index or a different unbiased inflation metric.
Traster 6y ago
I worked with some guys and I could never work out why they were doing things the way they were. I didn't really interact with what they were doing that much so I just assumed they were experts in the area and I just didn't understand. Overtime I ended up working with them more and more and I started looking at what problems they were solving and how they were approaching it. The more I looked the more I didn't understand their approach, and slowly it dawned on me. They're not geniuses doing things at an incredibly advanced level that goes over my head. They were actually doing really stupid stuff and I didn't understand it, because it was insane. What they were really doing - in my opinion - was cargo cult software development practices. They'd worked with complex well designed systems that they hadn't really understood and were reproducing a weird facsimile of it. That's very much how I feel about Bitcoin. The more I see and the more I understand the less I believe any of the peoples explanations. Not least because if you ask 5 different Bitcoin proponents, you'll get 5 completely different answer about why it's valuable - from the unlikely (USD is going to inflate like we're living in Venezuela), to the untrue (BTC is decentralized), to the unprovable (BTC is digital gold). Sometimes the reason the explanations don't make sense is because they're not right - and the alternative that BTC is a bubble or manipulated, atleast needs to be considered.
- rusticpenn 6y ago
  I think they are all problems searching for solutions. Take smart contracts for instance, I am not sure if they are better than any BPM (Business Process Model) or cheaper.
- G3n0t 6y ago
  The question of value is one of the most fundamental ones in economic theory. It's got nothing to do with crypto currencies or technology in general. If you really want to understand why we consider Bitcoin valuable (and btw: fiat money, too) go google for "subjective theory of value" and, more specifically, "regression theorem".
  - 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
    But you can’t actually use Bitcoin for anything? The Regression Theorem, first proposed by Ludwig von Mises in his 1912 book The Theory of Money and Credit, states that the value of money can be traced back ("regressed") to the goods and services it obtains. In other words, money is backed by some commodity that has intrinsic value. Recently, there has been a debate about applying Regression Theorem to Cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin.[1] Since Bitcoin (for instance) is not backed by any commodity, it appears to fail the definition of a currency according to the Regression Theorem. Others hold the view[2] that Bitcoin does fit the definition as it is at once a payment system and money, with the source of value being the payment system.
nivenkos 6y ago
At least with Visa, etc. I can complete a transaction within 3 hours...
mike_d 6y ago
A cryptonerd once asked me ironically "what actually backs the US dollar?" My response was "11 aircraft carriers that will park off the coast of any country that refuses to recognize it." "Fiat" at this point is just a loaded term used to try and dismiss all the things that actually make money worth something. Regulation, governance, monetary policy, and enforcement. The second someone finds a repeatable double spend attack in bitcoin, the whole market cap crashes to zero and everyone will be screaming "why isn't anyone stopping this???"
slightwinder 6y ago
Why?

>Is x a scam because I don't understand it/I'm priced out? Uh, no. Though fiat currency is definitely a scam.

by hd4 6y ago

>Is x a scam because I don't understand it/I'm priced out? Uh, no. Though fiat currency is definitely a scam.

Moderate CPI inflation is necessary for a productive economy. Fiat currency also has the nice property of being able to be used as money (payment for goods and services). So no, a well managed fiat currency can be extremely useful.

octocop 6y ago
I like the way you used moderate. There is a reason that you did, and I think that is one of the reasons that bitcoin is thriving.
- jeltz 6y ago
  But we have moderate inflation in most countries so I do not see you point.
  - lifty 6y ago
    We do have moderate to low CPI inflation in western countries, but we also have high inequality and a young generation that doesn't have any assets. Now, if whether you call that inflation or not, the reality of the matter is that the cheap money situation we are in has led to this situation where we have rampant speculation in stocks, real-estate, crypto assets and any other form of limited supply assets. So I think Bitcoin and the crypto asset class, is here to stay, offering its own unique set of advantages and disadvantages.
    - gthaman 6y ago
      CPI is a cooked up government statistic, used in contracts and agreements (including social security) that unconditionally favors the governments position. For example it does not include energy or housing costs. They also add and remove items from the CPI index, to remove ones that inflate and add ones such as consumer electronics that deflate. Check out the chapwood index or a different unbiased inflation metric.

Traster 6y ago

I worked with some guys and I could never work out why they were doing things the way they were. I didn't really interact with what they were doing that much so I just assumed they were experts in the area and I just didn't understand. Overtime I ended up working with them more and more and I started looking at what problems they were solving and how they were approaching it. The more I looked the more I didn't understand their approach, and slowly it dawned on me. They're not geniuses doing things at an incredibly advanced level that goes over my head. They were actually doing really stupid stuff and I didn't understand it, because it was insane. What they were really doing - in my opinion - was cargo cult software development practices. They'd worked with complex well designed systems that they hadn't really understood and were reproducing a weird facsimile of it. That's very much how I feel about Bitcoin. The more I see and the more I understand the less I believe any of the peoples explanations. Not least because if you ask 5 different Bitcoin proponents, you'll get 5 completely different answer about why it's valuable - from the unlikely (USD is going to inflate like we're living in Venezuela), to the untrue (BTC is decentralized), to the unprovable (BTC is digital gold). Sometimes the reason the explanations don't make sense is because they're not right - and the alternative that BTC is a bubble or manipulated, atleast needs to be considered.

rusticpenn 6y ago
I think they are all problems searching for solutions. Take smart contracts for instance, I am not sure if they are better than any BPM (Business Process Model) or cheaper.
G3n0t 6y ago
The question of value is one of the most fundamental ones in economic theory. It's got nothing to do with crypto currencies or technology in general. If you really want to understand why we consider Bitcoin valuable (and btw: fiat money, too) go google for "subjective theory of value" and, more specifically, "regression theorem".
- 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
  But you can’t actually use Bitcoin for anything? The Regression Theorem, first proposed by Ludwig von Mises in his 1912 book The Theory of Money and Credit, states that the value of money can be traced back ("regressed") to the goods and services it obtains. In other words, money is backed by some commodity that has intrinsic value. Recently, there has been a debate about applying Regression Theorem to Cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin.[1] Since Bitcoin (for instance) is not backed by any commodity, it appears to fail the definition of a currency according to the Regression Theorem. Others hold the view[2] that Bitcoin does fit the definition as it is at once a payment system and money, with the source of value being the payment system.

nivenkos 6y ago

At least with Visa, etc. I can complete a transaction within 3 hours...

mike_d 6y ago

A cryptonerd once asked me ironically "what actually backs the US dollar?" My response was "11 aircraft carriers that will park off the coast of any country that refuses to recognize it." "Fiat" at this point is just a loaded term used to try and dismiss all the things that actually make money worth something. Regulation, governance, monetary policy, and enforcement. The second someone finds a repeatable double spend attack in bitcoin, the whole market cap crashes to zero and everyone will be screaming "why isn't anyone stopping this???"

slightwinder 6y ago

Why?