7 ms·

Recent Big Clive video discussing this lamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4.

turbinerneiter 6y ago
> These lamps are currently only available in Dubai. The likelihood of them appearing elsewhere is limited by the fact that they are designed to last a long time, which isn't profitable for the manufacturers. Just incredibly sad.
- lodi 6y ago
  Isn't this already a "problem" with ordinary LED's though? For instance, I have the following first world problem: I bought a set of (newer, nicer) LED's to replace older bulbs as they burn out, but they've just been sitting in my closet for 4 years because not a single bulb has burned out since I moved in!
  - destitude 6y ago
    There are plenty of junk LED bulbs on Amazon for instance. I got some Amazon Basic LED bulbs and a couple of them didn't even last a year.
    - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
      I'm going to guess you didn't send them back for free replacements? And, guess again that the reason is "it's not worth the hassle [ie cost is greater than my time is worth]". We should be punishing product manufacturers whose products fall in the bottom quartile of life expectancy - returns by Freepost (receiver pays the postage) and get £10 compensation + money back or replacement. Perhaps then we could start addressing some of the planned obsolescence in low value goods.
  - smolder 6y ago
    IMHO, you should have moved the existing bulbs to the closet for if/when the new ones fail, so you can enjoy your upgrade. :) To answer your question, it really depends. If they run cool, are a good design, and aren't defective, they will last incredibly long. Often, one or more of those things isn't true.
    - kyriakos 6y ago
      That's exactly what I do, when I move I replace all light bulbs and keep the originals which I put back when I'm moving out.
- scotty79 6y ago
  I think there could be luxury market for them. They use a lot of more LEDs and electronics but there might be people that are willing to pay few times for more efficient LED that lasts longer and is gives more stable light when grid voltage fluctuates. Customer must just be easily able to tell apart better LEDs and they can just by looking how many LED filaments per watt they contain. I think China can make plenty of those if they become fashionable.
  - destitude 6y ago
    When some of the first edison style LED bulbs came out by Philips (looked like bug lights since the bulb looked yellow when off) they cost $40 a bulb. I did purchase one and is still being used.
    - timw4mail 6y ago
      Edison-style? As in the connection? I thought Edison-style bulbs had the strings of LED filaments.
  - teekert 6y ago
    I'd pay double for a lamp with double the life span because it's half the waste and that is just the right thing to do. Maybe they can then also give some warranties on this (internal timer?) I have already had about 3 Philips leds that I'm positive never got to over ~100 hours. Not the Hue ones, they seem to be pretty good quality.
    - scotty79 6y ago
      I think the price would be rather quadruple or quintuple for undetermined (multiple(?) decades average probably) lifetime with no or standard warranty and better energy efficiency. I would still gladly buy it if I was sure that higher prices actually pay for more undervolted LEDs and is not a marketing gimmick to "instill sense of quality".
  - turbinerneiter 6y ago
    > Customer must just be easily able to tell apart better LEDs and they can just by looking how many LED filaments per watt they contain. When I make buying decisions, I often struggle with exactly that: I have no way of telling what is "good" or "bad" quality, and I have to much experience with expensive stuff being repackaged cheap crap, so I end up buying cheap crap more often than I should. One thing I really hate are discounts. brand: this product is worth X brand, during some random days in the year: GUESS WHAT IT'S JUST X/2 TODAY YOLO me, always: you are ripping me off during the rest of the year
- optimiz3 6y ago
  This is exactly an area where government efficiency standards could help push the market forward (similar to CA in autos).
  - llampx 6y ago
    Exactly. Halogen and incandescent bulbs are allowed to be sold in Germany for decorative use, and what happens is that some people who can't imagine progress get their architects to put in multiple energy-sucking halogen lamps throughout their home. To hell with efficiency.
- idiot900 6y ago
  Bulbs like this, even at a much higher price, would be great for high ceiling mounted fixtures where changing the bulb requires a ladder and probably moving furniture.
  - llampx 6y ago
    The most powerful of these is only 3W, which it says replaces a 60W incandescent. Nowhere near powerful enough to replace anything that actually uses a lot of power and would be high-mounted. Maybe if you have a chandelier full of 60W incandescent bulbs, which since this is Dubai we're talking about, is actually possible.
    - idiot900 6y ago
      A specific use case would be recessed ceiling lights, which are not uncommon in this nominal wattage.
      - llampx 6y ago
        Yes that could be. Most recessed lights I've seen recently are spotlights, although that could be a function of where I am looking. IMO, interior designers and light manufacturers need to work together to make attractive energy-efficient lighting solutions. For example, recessed halogen-based spotlights are a nightmare for LEDs - there's nowhere for the heat to go. Even if you get an LED bulb from aliexpress, it won't last long because of the lack of proper heatsinking. Meanwhile there's plenty of surface area that could be utilized for heatsinking if the fixture is designed for LEDs from the ground up.
    - andromeduck 6y ago
      Yeah this is my big gripe with LED bulbs - it's hard to find compact 200W equivalents.
      - llampx 6y ago
        The higher wattage units need good heatsinking, and I believe that is easier done with integrated units, where the "bulb" aka driver is not replaceable. I've also thought of making my own, with a strip of aluminum and mounting 1W/3W emitters to it myself. Easy enough to drive them at whatever wattage you want, and maintain good thermal properties.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  If the trick is running the leds at a lower, more power and lifetime efficient, voltage - then can't existing lamps be modified?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    BigCliveDotCom does this, and mentions it in the linked YouTube video upthread.
- smolder 6y ago
  I can't figure out where the logic is in not selling these Dubai bulbs in other markets at all. Why not just sell the expensive-to-make bulbs at an equal or higher margin than standard ones? Are they protecting the bulb-replacement specialist industry by giving them something to do? Where are the competitive free market forces? I've been using LED lighting at home for a decade+ now. Some bulbs I bought back then still work. Many of the newer ones are failing fast, obviously struggling with heat in the fixtures they're in, which has been bothering me. The bits I like best are adhesive LED strips driven by a stand alone power supply with PWM dimmer in the living room. They're mounted in aluminum backed diffuser rails. I expect that stuff will last near as long as I do. They're under-driven and run cool, and the power supply seems high quality.
  - type0 6y ago
    > Are they protecting the bulb-replacement specialist industry by giving them something to do? That's the eternal question: How many computer scientists does it take to change a lightbulb? ǝnssᴉ ǝɹɐʍpɹɐɥ ɐ sᴉ ʇɐɥꓕ ǝuoN
  - kyriakos 6y ago
    These led strips sound interesting can you suggest some brands/models? I've had led strips but not with a diffuser.
    - smolder 6y ago
      The LED strips are pretty standard. The diffuser is a separate product. Search for LED aluminum channel and you'll find some. They don't do a very good job of diffusing (would love to see some that are better at it) but they do act as a heatsink.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Search for Osram Professional / Parathom Retrofit Classic A & B. I use them exlusively since a few years. What would be interesting to me is how reliable the stated 1 Watt of those Phillips E14 Candlelights are, mine from Osram are rated at 2,5Watts. Otherwise looking very similar in specifications.
- kps 6y ago
  See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel > The Phoebus cartel existed to control the manufacture and sale of incandescent light bulbs. They appropriated market territories and fixed the useful life of such bulbs. … The cartel tested their bulbs and fined manufacturers for bulbs that lasted more than 1,000 hours.
- abridgett 6y ago
  This is why (more than anything) I wanted the UK to stay in the EU. The EU seems to be one of the few organisations with the clout and principle to actually make this sort of thing happen - to improve people's lives and raise standards. 2 year guarantees being another example: https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers...
robgolding 6y ago
Came here to post this same link but you beat me to it! Big Clive's videos are brilliant—highly recommend his channel to anyone remotely interested in electricity/electronics.
- beervirus 6y ago
  ... or interested in carbonating cheap wine, etc.
  - DiabloD3 6y ago
    ... or electrocuting snacks and then eating them.
    - g051051 6y ago
      ... or reveling in the mighty beard.
rjmunro 6y ago
See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25758652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25758652

turbinerneiter 6y ago

> These lamps are currently only available in Dubai. The likelihood of them appearing elsewhere is limited by the fact that they are designed to last a long time, which isn't profitable for the manufacturers. Just incredibly sad.

lodi 6y ago
Isn't this already a "problem" with ordinary LED's though? For instance, I have the following first world problem: I bought a set of (newer, nicer) LED's to replace older bulbs as they burn out, but they've just been sitting in my closet for 4 years because not a single bulb has burned out since I moved in!
- destitude 6y ago
  There are plenty of junk LED bulbs on Amazon for instance. I got some Amazon Basic LED bulbs and a couple of them didn't even last a year.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    I'm going to guess you didn't send them back for free replacements? And, guess again that the reason is "it's not worth the hassle [ie cost is greater than my time is worth]". We should be punishing product manufacturers whose products fall in the bottom quartile of life expectancy - returns by Freepost (receiver pays the postage) and get £10 compensation + money back or replacement. Perhaps then we could start addressing some of the planned obsolescence in low value goods.
- smolder 6y ago
  IMHO, you should have moved the existing bulbs to the closet for if/when the new ones fail, so you can enjoy your upgrade. :) To answer your question, it really depends. If they run cool, are a good design, and aren't defective, they will last incredibly long. Often, one or more of those things isn't true.
  - kyriakos 6y ago
    That's exactly what I do, when I move I replace all light bulbs and keep the originals which I put back when I'm moving out.
scotty79 6y ago
I think there could be luxury market for them. They use a lot of more LEDs and electronics but there might be people that are willing to pay few times for more efficient LED that lasts longer and is gives more stable light when grid voltage fluctuates. Customer must just be easily able to tell apart better LEDs and they can just by looking how many LED filaments per watt they contain. I think China can make plenty of those if they become fashionable.
- destitude 6y ago
  When some of the first edison style LED bulbs came out by Philips (looked like bug lights since the bulb looked yellow when off) they cost $40 a bulb. I did purchase one and is still being used.
  - timw4mail 6y ago
    Edison-style? As in the connection? I thought Edison-style bulbs had the strings of LED filaments.
- teekert 6y ago
  I'd pay double for a lamp with double the life span because it's half the waste and that is just the right thing to do. Maybe they can then also give some warranties on this (internal timer?) I have already had about 3 Philips leds that I'm positive never got to over ~100 hours. Not the Hue ones, they seem to be pretty good quality.
  - scotty79 6y ago
    I think the price would be rather quadruple or quintuple for undetermined (multiple(?) decades average probably) lifetime with no or standard warranty and better energy efficiency. I would still gladly buy it if I was sure that higher prices actually pay for more undervolted LEDs and is not a marketing gimmick to "instill sense of quality".
- turbinerneiter 6y ago
  > Customer must just be easily able to tell apart better LEDs and they can just by looking how many LED filaments per watt they contain. When I make buying decisions, I often struggle with exactly that: I have no way of telling what is "good" or "bad" quality, and I have to much experience with expensive stuff being repackaged cheap crap, so I end up buying cheap crap more often than I should. One thing I really hate are discounts. brand: this product is worth X brand, during some random days in the year: GUESS WHAT IT'S JUST X/2 TODAY YOLO me, always: you are ripping me off during the rest of the year
optimiz3 6y ago
This is exactly an area where government efficiency standards could help push the market forward (similar to CA in autos).
- llampx 6y ago
  Exactly. Halogen and incandescent bulbs are allowed to be sold in Germany for decorative use, and what happens is that some people who can't imagine progress get their architects to put in multiple energy-sucking halogen lamps throughout their home. To hell with efficiency.
idiot900 6y ago
Bulbs like this, even at a much higher price, would be great for high ceiling mounted fixtures where changing the bulb requires a ladder and probably moving furniture.
- llampx 6y ago
  The most powerful of these is only 3W, which it says replaces a 60W incandescent. Nowhere near powerful enough to replace anything that actually uses a lot of power and would be high-mounted. Maybe if you have a chandelier full of 60W incandescent bulbs, which since this is Dubai we're talking about, is actually possible.
  - idiot900 6y ago
    A specific use case would be recessed ceiling lights, which are not uncommon in this nominal wattage.
    - llampx 6y ago
      Yes that could be. Most recessed lights I've seen recently are spotlights, although that could be a function of where I am looking. IMO, interior designers and light manufacturers need to work together to make attractive energy-efficient lighting solutions. For example, recessed halogen-based spotlights are a nightmare for LEDs - there's nowhere for the heat to go. Even if you get an LED bulb from aliexpress, it won't last long because of the lack of proper heatsinking. Meanwhile there's plenty of surface area that could be utilized for heatsinking if the fixture is designed for LEDs from the ground up.
  - andromeduck 6y ago
    Yeah this is my big gripe with LED bulbs - it's hard to find compact 200W equivalents.
    - llampx 6y ago
      The higher wattage units need good heatsinking, and I believe that is easier done with integrated units, where the "bulb" aka driver is not replaceable. I've also thought of making my own, with a strip of aluminum and mounting 1W/3W emitters to it myself. Easy enough to drive them at whatever wattage you want, and maintain good thermal properties.
Chris2048 6y ago
If the trick is running the leds at a lower, more power and lifetime efficient, voltage - then can't existing lamps be modified?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  BigCliveDotCom does this, and mentions it in the linked YouTube video upthread.
smolder 6y ago
I can't figure out where the logic is in not selling these Dubai bulbs in other markets at all. Why not just sell the expensive-to-make bulbs at an equal or higher margin than standard ones? Are they protecting the bulb-replacement specialist industry by giving them something to do? Where are the competitive free market forces? I've been using LED lighting at home for a decade+ now. Some bulbs I bought back then still work. Many of the newer ones are failing fast, obviously struggling with heat in the fixtures they're in, which has been bothering me. The bits I like best are adhesive LED strips driven by a stand alone power supply with PWM dimmer in the living room. They're mounted in aluminum backed diffuser rails. I expect that stuff will last near as long as I do. They're under-driven and run cool, and the power supply seems high quality.
- type0 6y ago
  > Are they protecting the bulb-replacement specialist industry by giving them something to do? That's the eternal question: How many computer scientists does it take to change a lightbulb? ǝnssᴉ ǝɹɐʍpɹɐɥ ɐ sᴉ ʇɐɥꓕ ǝuoN
- kyriakos 6y ago
  These led strips sound interesting can you suggest some brands/models? I've had led strips but not with a diffuser.
  - smolder 6y ago
    The LED strips are pretty standard. The diffuser is a separate product. Search for LED aluminum channel and you'll find some. They don't do a very good job of diffusing (would love to see some that are better at it) but they do act as a heatsink.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Search for Osram Professional / Parathom Retrofit Classic A & B. I use them exlusively since a few years. What would be interesting to me is how reliable the stated 1 Watt of those Phillips E14 Candlelights are, mine from Osram are rated at 2,5Watts. Otherwise looking very similar in specifications.
kps 6y ago
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel > The Phoebus cartel existed to control the manufacture and sale of incandescent light bulbs. They appropriated market territories and fixed the useful life of such bulbs. … The cartel tested their bulbs and fined manufacturers for bulbs that lasted more than 1,000 hours.
abridgett 6y ago
This is why (more than anything) I wanted the UK to stay in the EU. The EU seems to be one of the few organisations with the clout and principle to actually make this sort of thing happen - to improve people's lives and raise standards. 2 year guarantees being another example: https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers...

robgolding 6y ago

Came here to post this same link but you beat me to it! Big Clive's videos are brilliant—highly recommend his channel to anyone remotely interested in electricity/electronics.

beervirus 6y ago
... or interested in carbonating cheap wine, etc.
- DiabloD3 6y ago
  ... or electrocuting snacks and then eating them.
  - g051051 6y ago
    ... or reveling in the mighty beard.

rjmunro 6y ago

See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25758652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25758652