4 ms·

I don’t base my view of Trump as a fascist on January 6th. I just saw it as confirmation. Trump by the way did call for people to march to the capitol in langua

by api 6y ago

I don’t base my view of Trump as a fascist on January 6th. I just saw it as confirmation. Trump by the way did call for people to march to the capitol in language that at least made those idiots feel as if they’d been told to do what they did, and Giuliani was even more explicit with his “trial by combat” comments. I have no way of knowing if they intended it to go that far, but they certainly should not be surprised. If Trump is not a stupid man then he ought to understand the mindset of that bunch. I am also well aware of how words like fascist, communist, etc are just tossed around. In this case I mean it precisely. Steve Bannon’s favorite philosopher is Julius Evola and Trump is surrounded by and beloved by doctrinaire race nationalists and fascists. Neo-Nazis and similar ideologues are almost universal in their fanatical support of him. Fascism is an ideology that has to be fought at all costs, and Greenwald if anything gives cover and support to it. I have never seen him write anything critical of Trump or actual Nazis like Bannon and Steven Miller. Instead he attacks the other side at opportune times, and while I am not overjoyed about the existing Democratic Party they are at least not fascists. By the way I think the same thing about authoritarian communism, but last I checked a Leninist did not occupy the White House and there are no Bolsheviks wearing Stalin apologist shirts storming the capital. If there were I’d be saying communist, not fascist.

pure_simplicity 6y ago
It was very clear from the speeches given at the rally that Trump and team had placed their bets on the constitutional process where representatives and senators would dutifully object to certain electors on behalf of their constituents who have doubts about the integrity of the election. These would ask for a 10 day review by an independent commission (something I think could have brought the country closer if executed properly, regardless of the outcome). Any violent intervention before the conclusion of that process would have (and has) impeded that process. Which of Trump's words do you think incited the people to storm the capitol? I got a few points that cast doubt on the theory that Trump incited the violence: - Trump's speech said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. ... We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women." - The people stormed the capitol while the speech was still ongoing, but it takes at least 35 minutes to get there from where Trump was giving the speech, so these people were actually a separate group that were not present at the rally to hear Trump speak. - There were at least some identified antifa agitators encouraging violence among the relatively small number of Trump supporters (victims of the Q anon disinformation campaign) that initially breached the capitol. - Trump supporters that arrived from the rally were opposing the group that initially breached the capitol. They condemned the siege, told people not to aid the rioters or follow their example. This shows evidence that the people that actually were at the rally had clearly understood Trump's explicit intent to keep things peaceful. What really caused the tragic events on jan 6th IMO: - The Q anon disinformation campaign that had been escalating towards violence for some time, claiming that any day now Trump was gonna take over the country using the military - The media fuelling the Q anon narrative of Trump doing a military coup by propagating their own versions of this insane conspiracy theory - The FBI, Pentagon, DC mayor not taking decisive action despite knowing of the plans circulating on the message boards populated by the lunatic fringe (Q anon) I'm glad you do oppose the careless use of words. About the guilt by association game: Richard Spencer and David Duke endorsed Biden 2020. Is Biden a fascist now too? Trump has denounced white supremacy on countless occasions and designated the KKK a domestic terrorist organization, he is pro israel. I don't think Trump (or Biden) is a fascist. He's a New York liberal that is too conservative for the democrat party (mostly because the dems have moved leftward) but has drawn the republicans to the left. About Glenn Greenwald, he has been smeared as a Trump supporter since 2016 (because that's how the establishment left demonizes their leftwing critics, by calling them conservative), but Glenn denounced Trump as opposing "everything he has devoted his career to defending" [1]. The fact that Glenn is still willing to hold the democrat party accountable regardless of political expediency makes him one of the few real journalists. When everyone on the left was covering up Joe Biden's corruption scandal, he dared call it out. That's called being principled. Despite it being politically advantageous to Trump, the electorate deserves to know before making a choice. [1] https://www.salon.com/2016/08/17/no-they-dont-support-trump-smeared-left-wing-writers-debunk-the-myth/ https://www.salon.com/2016/08/17/no-they-dont-support-trump-... [edited to get the bullet points on separate lines]

by api 6y ago

pure_simplicity 6y ago

It was very clear from the speeches given at the rally that Trump and team had placed their bets on the constitutional process where representatives and senators would dutifully object to certain electors on behalf of their constituents who have doubts about the integrity of the election. These would ask for a 10 day review by an independent commission (something I think could have brought the country closer if executed properly, regardless of the outcome). Any violent intervention before the conclusion of that process would have (and has) impeded that process. Which of Trump's words do you think incited the people to storm the capitol? I got a few points that cast doubt on the theory that Trump incited the violence: - Trump's speech said: "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. ... We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women." - The people stormed the capitol while the speech was still ongoing, but it takes at least 35 minutes to get there from where Trump was giving the speech, so these people were actually a separate group that were not present at the rally to hear Trump speak. - There were at least some identified antifa agitators encouraging violence among the relatively small number of Trump supporters (victims of the Q anon disinformation campaign) that initially breached the capitol. - Trump supporters that arrived from the rally were opposing the group that initially breached the capitol. They condemned the siege, told people not to aid the rioters or follow their example. This shows evidence that the people that actually were at the rally had clearly understood Trump's explicit intent to keep things peaceful. What really caused the tragic events on jan 6th IMO: - The Q anon disinformation campaign that had been escalating towards violence for some time, claiming that any day now Trump was gonna take over the country using the military - The media fuelling the Q anon narrative of Trump doing a military coup by propagating their own versions of this insane conspiracy theory - The FBI, Pentagon, DC mayor not taking decisive action despite knowing of the plans circulating on the message boards populated by the lunatic fringe (Q anon) I'm glad you do oppose the careless use of words. About the guilt by association game: Richard Spencer and David Duke endorsed Biden 2020. Is Biden a fascist now too? Trump has denounced white supremacy on countless occasions and designated the KKK a domestic terrorist organization, he is pro israel. I don't think Trump (or Biden) is a fascist. He's a New York liberal that is too conservative for the democrat party (mostly because the dems have moved leftward) but has drawn the republicans to the left. About Glenn Greenwald, he has been smeared as a Trump supporter since 2016 (because that's how the establishment left demonizes their leftwing critics, by calling them conservative), but Glenn denounced Trump as opposing "everything he has devoted his career to defending" [1]. The fact that Glenn is still willing to hold the democrat party accountable regardless of political expediency makes him one of the few real journalists. When everyone on the left was covering up Joe Biden's corruption scandal, he dared call it out. That's called being principled. Despite it being politically advantageous to Trump, the electorate deserves to know before making a choice. [1] https://www.salon.com/2016/08/17/no-they-dont-support-trump-smeared-left-wing-writers-debunk-the-myth/ https://www.salon.com/2016/08/17/no-they-dont-support-trump-... [edited to get the bullet points on separate lines]